X5 is back

[RJH]

Single action carryops here we come

[Racinready300ex]

2 hours ago, Sinister4 said:

Yup totally   I cannot believe this is not offered in DA/SA  like my older one, just dumb.................unless sig knows CO will allow single action next year ??  

 

I think it's coming, but I don't think it's that sig knows something. It's more that we just want to stay relevant and think new divisions are the answer. 

 

I'm building a 2011 for it now. 

[Johnny_Chimpo]

3 hours ago, Sinister4 said:

unless sig knows CO will allow single action next year ??  

 

I'm sure they're trying.  I hope they fail.  We don't need another perceived gear race.

 

 

[Bdh821]

How is everyone so blind to see that SAO CO, Limited Optics as I’m calling it for now, is right around the corner. All these 2011 slide ride guns and now something like the 226 XFive. Yee talking about it on a recent podcast… it’s happening 

[X5SigChris]

8 minutes ago, Bdh821 said:

How is everyone so blind to see that SAO CO, Limited Optics as I’m calling it for now, is right around the corner. All these 2011 slide ride guns and now something like the 226 XFive. Yee talking about it on a recent podcast… it’s happening 

There has been a ton of podcasts about it. I personally think it’ll happen at some point sooner rather than later. 
 

I believe the bigger thing holding it up is finding a way to make it just as big as CO without taking away from CO numbers. 

[Boomstick303]

Its only gear race for lazy shooters.  Canik and Sig plastic guns do just fine. 

 

If you think somehow the gear makes you competitive you deserve to pay the price.  

 

1 minute ago, X5SigChris said:

finding a way to make it just as big as CO without taking away from CO numbers. 

 

I do not think CO would take as big of a hit as open and Limited would.  Especially Open.  Many open shooters have indicated to me they would shoot CO if they could shoot a 2011 in it.  Shoot a division using a SA gun that doesn't beat itself to crap.  Yes Please.......

 

How much life do you get out of minor 9 mm 2011?   Way more than open and Limited pistols I imagine.  

[Boomstick303]

On 10/5/2022 at 1:14 PM, GigG said:

And the focus of the shooter Sig has hyping the pistol.

 

I did ask myself why when I saw that?

[X5SigChris]

1 minute ago, Boomstick303 said:

Its only gear race for lazy shooters.  Canik and Sig plastic guns do just fine. 

 

If you think somehow the gear makes you competitive you deserve to pay the price.  

 

 

I do not think CO would take as big of a hit as open and Limited would.  Especially Open.  Many open shooters have indicated to me they would shoot CO if they could shoot a 2011 in it.  Shoot a division using a SA gun that doesn't beat itself to crap.  Yes Please.......

 

How much life do you get out of minor 9 mm 2011?   Way more than open and Limited pistols I imagine.  

That’s a great point. I myself would love to shoot open, I just can’t afford it. However when I shot limited with a 2011, that was much much easier on the wallet. 

[RJH]

40 minutes ago, Boomstick303 said:

Its only gear race for lazy shooters.  Canik and Sig plastic guns do just fine. 

 

If you think somehow the gear makes you competitive you deserve to pay the price.  

 

 

I do not think CO would take as big of a hit as open and Limited would.  Especially Open.  Many open shooters have indicated to me they would shoot CO if they could shoot a 2011 in it.  Shoot a division using a SA gun that doesn't beat itself to crap.  Yes Please.......

 

How much life do you get out of minor 9 mm 2011?   Way more than open and Limited pistols I imagine.  

 

This, all of this^^^^

 

 

Hell, 2011's maybe at a disadvantage because they tend to not be as reliable 

[Boomstick303]

5 minutes ago, RJH said:

Hell, 2011's maybe at a disadvantage because they tend to not be as reliable

 

Is the platform unreliable???  Or does the person shooting the platform know how to maintain it??

 

Plus are we talking about 2011s in general or are we talking about 2011 open guns?   2011 Limited guns I observe tend to have zero issues.  People who know how to maintain their 2011 tend to have zero issues. 

 

Open guns, that is another story.  Hence the reason I think minor Limited Optics would explode.

Edited October 7, 2022 by Boomstick303

[X5SigChris]

I can honestly say that my limited gun has yet to let me down. I’m sure it will one day as more parts wear out but hasn’t yet. 

[RJH]

9 minutes ago, Boomstick303 said:

 

Is the platform unreliable???  Or does the person shooting the platform know how to maintain it??

 

Plus are we talking about 2011s in general or are we talking about 2011 open guns?   2011 Limited guns I observe tend to have zero issues.  People who know how to maintain their 2011 tend to have zero issues. 

 

Open guns, that is another story.  Hence the reason I think minor Limited Optics would explode.

 

I say the platform is less reliable in general than most of your plastic guns. The fact that the person shooting it has to "know" how to maintain it is an example of them being less reliable 

 

And I do agree though that open guns tend to be less reliable than limited guns. But also from shooting for 20 years I would say overall limited guns are less reliable than production type guns but the margins are much closer. That said, the gun that I see people have most issues with is a sig 320. The last major I worked there were more sig 320s having issues then open guns. And I tend to see that more at locals as well. I have no idea what ammo people are running etc, just that the instances of malfunctions with 320s seem to bypass everything else. But I know they must work pretty good in some instances because they've won several national titles

 

 

Edited October 7, 2022 by RJH

[Boomstick303]

1 minute ago, RJH said:

The last major I worked there were more sig 320s having issues then open guns. And I tend to see that more at locals as well.

 

What type of malfunction?  I have seen issues with Case head separations with the Sigs from various issues, but mostly due to the unsupported barrel. 

 

I see more issues with CZs than Sigs at our local matches.  

 

[RJH]

14 minutes ago, Boomstick303 said:

 

What type of malfunction?  I have seen issues with Case head separations with the Sigs from various issues, but mostly due to the unsupported barrel. 

 

I see more issues with CZs than Sigs at our local matches.  

 

 

Feeding issues, failure to fire, failure to eject, etc. A lot of it could be down to whatever the owner has done to the gun, or bad reloads. I do remember one of the very first matches I noticed a 320 at a few years back, there were two guys shooting brand new guns that were factory conditions still, and they were shooting Winchester white box ammo and both of them were getting the same light strikes. They weren't shooting ammo out of the same box, but it could have been the same lot. But ever since then it's just been a recurring theme that I've noticed.

 

Most of the Czs I've seen seem to work, but to be honest not that many people in my area are shooting CZ. Seems like most people here shooting some form of plastic blaster in carryops, and a couple of people are shooting Berettas and all of those seem to work just fine.

 

It was just really interesting at the last major I worked because I decided to take note of what guns were having issues. I figured open guns would obviously be the number one that didn't want to work, but it was sig 320s. Of course all the malfunctions were on the clock and the guys were clearing them and getting back to it so it's not like we broke them down to figure out just what went wrong, just a noticeable theme

[Boomstick303]

Curious.  I have not seen that the case at any Level match I attend.  Especially the light strike issue.

[X5SigChris]

That’s very interesting. I can’t say I’ve seen that either but my amount of shooting is most likely less than y’all’s too.
 

worth taking note of though  

[echotango]

They must be loading some crappy ammo. 

[GigG]

3 hours ago, Boomstick303 said:

I do not think CO would take as big of a hit as open and Limited would.  Especially Open.  Many open shooters have indicated to me they would shoot CO if they could shoot a 2011 in it.  Shoot a division using a SA gun that doesn't beat itself to crap.  Yes Please.......

 

 

But then all of the CO shooters who aren't shooting 2011 raceguns would be screwed.

 

And yes, 2011s fail more because in most cases they are tuned to the absolute limit. I shot a race Chip McCormick framed gun in 1991-92.  It never failed during a match shooting 175PF .38 Super.

[Boomstick303]

4 minutes ago, GigG said:

But then all of the CO shooters who aren't shooting 2011 raceguns would be screwed.

 

I assume this is sarcasm?  

 

From my understanding Limited Optics is a completely different division than CO.  Maybe I have misunderstood the "Proposed" division in the USPSA board meeting minutes.

 

 

[X5SigChris]

My assumption was it would be an additional division as well. 
 

if they added SAO to the current CO, then a lot of us would have to consider the pros and cons of making an expensive swap lol. 

[GigG]

34 minutes ago, Boomstick303 said:

From my understanding Limited Optics is a completely different division than CO.  Maybe I have misunderstood the "Proposed" division in the USPSA board meeting minutes.

 

If that's the case I have no problem with the idea.  And will likely shoot the class at some point.

[RJH]

So everybody that thinks limited optics would be an okay division, but putting 2011's in carry optics wouldn't be okay, would you change your mind if they made up a new division and then the scores were interchangeable in the overalls? Because that's what's going to happen

[GigG]

2 minutes ago, RJH said:

So everybody that thinks limited optics would be an okay division, but putting 2011's in carry optics wouldn't be okay, would you change your mind if they made up a new division and then the scores were interchangeable in the overalls? Because that's what's going to happen

 

I don't understand that.  CO is minor only and very few mods to the gun.  Limited would  pretty much a race gun without the comp. How would the "scores were interchangeable".

[RJH]

2 minutes ago, GigG said:

 

I don't understand that.  CO is minor only and very few mods to the gun.  Limited would  pretty much a race gun without the comp. How would the "scores were interchangeable".

 

Well, I must admit I was jumping to the conclusion of limited carryops being a minor only division. If that's the case then the scores will be interchangeable.

 

This has already been proven out in actual limited division when Mason Lane won two years in a row with a sig 320 legion that I'm pretty sure didn't even have a magwell on it, Nils got second place shooting a canik in 9 mm. That's against all the atlas, SV, limcat, ETC race guns and shooting major ammo. So if you throw out major ammo, the scores will be interchangeable.

[Racinready300ex]

I think it's going to be a minor only division.