Mark 7 EVO Rifle Powder drop not metering consistently

[mpmo]

Brand new powder drop.  Trying to get it to meter 27.5gn of CFE223.  I'm OK with +/- .1 or even .2.  But I'm at 27.5 for a while and then go to check and I'm at 27.9 or 27.3.  Any thoughts?

 

Press is new to me, as is rifle reloading.  I've got a lot of experience loading pistol on a LNL.  Die is previous station is a Lyman expanding.  Using new Starline .223 brass.

 

[Farmer]

Consistent vibrations, full strokes top and bottom. Powder shook down and settled in the hopper before you start? Everything tight and adjusted for proper stroke without another die stopping the process short when running full? Static build up? Also make sure Mars is aligned with Saturn otherwise the moon pulls on the powder wrong.  Ok you can probably skip the last one…..but there’s days I wonder. 

Edited February 12, 2022 by Farmer

[AHI]

You can only load rifle ammo. during the first phase of the new moon. thought everyone knew that.

Edited February 12, 2022 by AHI

[mpmo]

So I can get it to be consistent +/- 0.1 for about the first 30 loads.  Then it jumps about .3-.5. I have the nut on the plunger assembly tightened with a wrench.  Any ideas?

 

 

[AHI]

After the 30 loads it increases .3/.5.   If you adjust it to be correct at that time will it stay or does it change again?

Are you maintaining a constant volume in the powder measure? (Not less than 1/4. Not more than 3/4) 

How smooth is the press operation? 

[mpmo]

3 hours ago, AHI said:

After the 30 loads it increases .3/.5.   If you adjust it to be correct at that time will it stay or does it change again?

Are you maintaining a constant volume in the powder measure? (Not less than 1/4. Not more than 3/4) 

How smooth is the press operation? 

 

I think I might have it down.  I adjusted to 27.3, let it climb to 27.5 after 30 or so rounds.  So far after 100 rds, it has stayed.  I am cranking down on the plunger assembly lock screw pretty good. 

 

I did take my measure apart and wipe down with a dryer sheet and re-installed it on the press according to the instructions.  Those things could have helped.  

 

Also, I do keep powder level in the hopper consistent. I tend to keep it between 70-85% full.

 

 

[AHI]

Next time you load. Fill powder measure. Then lightly tap on it to settle the powder. From just poured in to settled .  The full line will drop about one inch. This should help. That's why I asked if after the increase. If it became consistent. Your powder is compressing.

[mpmo]

Well, spoke too soon.  As above, it settled at 27.5 for about 125 rounds.  Then it jumped up to 27.8-27.9.  I have to call it quits for the day before I throw something out the window.  

 

 

[ddc]

My recollection from following the EVO story from back at the beginning of that product was that there were often complaints about the powder measure at that point in time.

 

How old is your machine? Is it possible you have one of the earlier powder measures?

[mpmo]

1 hour ago, ddc said:

My recollection from following the EVO story from back at the beginning of that product was that there were often complaints about the powder measure at that point in time.

 

How old is your machine? Is it possible you have one of the earlier powder measures?

 

Machine is probably a year old.  The powder measure was purchased new this week.  It is new style.

 

After the last time it shifted I already had about 150 rounds done.  I took note of the baffle and noticed that the powder completely filled the space under the baffle.  To test the theory that it was a powder compression issue, without messing with the powder in the hopper, I again set reset the charge back to 27.5.  Did 20 drops to make sure it stayed consistent and then loaded another 100.  Sometime around the 100 mark, it AGAIN shifted back up .3 gns.  I'm at a loss.

 

Also to note, occasionally it will throw a 28.0 even when it is otherwise consistently throwing my dialed 27.5. 

Edited February 13, 2022 by mpmo

[AHI]

go to a hobby shop . Get a fine tipped paint stick. mark every bolt ,adjustment screw etc. See what if anything is moving.

[SSGJohnV]

There are a few things going on, some of which have been mentioned above. 

 

Rules of powder in a volumetric powder measure. 

 

1. Discard the first charge thrown after you make a change to the charge weight. 

 

2. Never let the powder get below the baffle. 

 

3. Ensure your powder is settled. Upon initial fill OR if it has set for a while (overnight/weekend) , your powder will most likely have compressed. Dump the first 5-10 charges in these scenarios. 

 

4. Setting up your powder measure correctly. Please follow the instructions to ensure you are getting the stem to make O-ring contact with the body at full extension. 

 

5. Obstruction in the cavity or funnel. Ensure you do not oil the measure. I believe the lower housing sleeve is lightly greased from the factory for smoother operation. If debris has made its way into the measure that can also cause issues. 

 

6. Inconsistent stroke. It takes time for all the powder to fall down into the case. Are you allowing a slight "dwell" at the bottom of the stroke? Are you noticing spilled powder around the powder station? 

 

I would encourage you to submit a support ticket on the Mark 7 Reloading website if you are still having issues. 

 

https://www.markvii-loading.com/supports/customer-service-support.html

Edited February 13, 2022 by SSGJohnV

[mpmo]

6 hours ago, SSGJohnV said:

There are a few things going on, some of which have been mentioned above. 

 

Rules of powder in a volumetric powder measure. 

 

1. Discard the first charge thrown after you make a change to the charge weight. 

 

2. Never let the powder get below the baffle. 

 

3. Ensure your powder is settled. Upon initial fill OR if it has set for a while (overnight/weekend) , your powder will most likely have compressed. Dump the first 5-10 charges in these scenarios. 

 

4. Setting up your powder measure correctly. Please follow the instructions to ensure you are getting the stem to make O-ring contact with the body at full extension. 

 

5. Obstruction in the cavity or funnel. Ensure you do not oil the measure. I believe the lower housing sleeve is lightly greased from the factory for smoother operation. If debris has made its way into the measure that can also cause issues. 

 

6. Inconsistent stroke. It takes time for all the powder to fall down into the case. Are you allowing a slight "dwell" at the bottom of the stroke? Are you noticing spilled powder around the powder station? 

 

I would encourage you to submit a support ticket on the Mark 7 Reloading website if you are still having issues. 

 

https://www.markvii-loading.com/supports/customer-service-support.html

 

[mpmo]

Hey there John,

Thanks so much for replying to my post!  We have a friend in common here in Columbus.  We shoot together a bunch.  

 

Had a couple questions regarding your post

 

2. Never let the powder get below the baffle. 

 

I’m not sure I understand this.  The powder has to get below the baffle in order to make it to the plunger and out to the round.  Do you mean not to let it fill up completely under the baffle?  How would I prevent this?  I did notice that it is completely full under the baffle.  I did make a bit of an adjustment on the baffle to widen it out.  Maybe it needs a bit more?

 

4. Setting up your powder measure correctly. Please follow the instructions to ensure you are getting the stem to make O-ring contact with the body at full extension. 

 

Instructions say with an empty round in the shell holder to turn it until the stem reaches the top and then keep turning until it stops (I assume stop means it will no longer turn) and then reverse 1/2 to 3/4 turn.  I did this.  Let me know if I’m missing something.

 

5. Obstruction in the cavity or funnel. Ensure you do not oil the measure. I believe the lower housing sleeve is lightly greased from the factory for smoother operation. If debris has made its way into the measure that can also cause issues. 

 

I haven’t oiled anything.  Typically with something like a powder measure, I would use graphite if I needed to lube.  But I haven’t done that or any other lubrication.

 

6. Inconsistent stroke. It takes time for all the powder to fall down into the case. Are you allowing a slight "dwell" at the bottom of the stroke? Are you noticing spilled powder around the powder station? 

 

If I am getting too much powder in the drop, it would seem that it wouldn’t be a dwell issue right?  Too little time at the bottom logically would mean less powder I assume.  However, I am getting some powder spillage at times from the measure.  So maybe that is also an issue?  How long should I let it sit in the bottom?

 

[Farmer]

He means don’t let the powder level in the entire hopper get below the baffle. I usually add more powder when the level gets within an inch of the baffle. 
One other thing you may try is to raise or lower the baffle in your hopper if you can. 

[mpmo]

6 hours ago, Farmer said:

He means don’t let the powder level in the entire hopper get below the baffle. I usually add more powder when the level gets within an inch of the baffle. 
One other thing you may try is to raise or lower the baffle in your hopper if you can. 

 

I keep it 65-85% full.

 

[mpmo]

I ran another experiment this morning where I gave it a several seconds at both the bottom and the top.  Didn't count the first 10 measures.  After that, was still no consistent.  About .4gn of difference, from 27.4-27.8.  

 

I called Mark 7.  Spoke with someone who must be level one tech support or in training.  He didn't really have the knowledge yet to trouble shoot it to the point where I'm at.  He said he would have someone call me.  Waiting on that call.  

 

 

[Farmer]

Do you have any other powders that you could just try in it? Not to load but just run through the measure to see if it does the same thing. You don’t even have to change the settings, just throw some and see what comes out and then continue to see what happens. 

[flwr2019]

Has this been resolved? Following this post... Having some of the same problems as mpmo. 

[mpmo]

Not resolved yet.  I just got too frustrated and had to put it down.  Since I posted, I've done the following:

 

1.I disassembled the Mark 7 powder measure, cleaned with alcohol, wiped internal areas with a dryer sheet, reassembled.  The powder measure ran a bit rougher after I cleaned it and it was still inconsistent.  Next steps there, I am going to disassemble and see if I can tell why it is running rougher.  It seems like something in the bottom stem area is getting caught on an edge of tube. 

 

2.I replaced the Mark 7 measure with a new Hornady drop.  I had about the same experience.  I could get it to run consistently, but then it would drop .2-.5 after loading 100 or more rounds.  Do some more measuring and it would be up and down.  I am using 2 scales to measure also.

 

Here is the main thing that I think is happening.  Please keep in mind, I am not an experienced rifle reloader.  I am experienced with loading pistol in a progressive.  

 

I think that in order to have a consistent powder drop, the machine has to be run at a pretty exact speed, with the dwell times up and down consistent.  Once I am loading at speed (leaving plenty of dwell time in both positions,) I believe the powder levels out to a set amount.  If I stop the press to inspect an issue, load more components, etc, it's going to change how much is being dropped for some length of time until I have a consistent movement again.  If this is the case, this whole process might just be untenable.  I can't have 5% mystery rounds over or under loaded.  And trying to pull out the next 5-10 rounds to set aside for practice every time I have to interrupt the process, will just cause more interruptions.  And if I'm feeling pressure to keep the press going, I might miss issues.

 

I am thinking about loading some more to try to test that theory.  I just got in today a replacement drop spring for the Mr. Bulletfeeder to try to get more downward momentum. (55gn rounds are getting caught on the stop switch.). That was causing me to stop the press pretty frequently.  But even if I get that working right, I'm still going to have to stop occassionally to deal with a bullet that fell off, reload brass and bullets in the feeders, reload primers every 100 etc.  

 

I'm a bit at a loss.  But I also have to say, I'm leaning toward this not being a Mark 7 issue, especially since I'm still having issues after switching the powder measure. 

Edited March 10, 2022 by mpmo

[ddc]

Just a thought of off the top of my head... if this is a more generic powder measure related issue (as opposed to a Mk7 press issue) then how many rifle re-loaders are experiencing the same behavior but don't realize it?

[AHI]

Have you called Lyman/Mark7 about this lately?

[mpmo]

18 hours ago, ddc said:

Just a thought of off the top of my head... if this is a more generic powder measure related issue (as opposed to a Mk7 press issue) then how many rifle re-loaders are experiencing the same behavior but don't realize it?

 

That's a good question.  I can't visually tell the difference in almost a full grain of powder.  I'm still pretty hesitant to draw any conclusions as I'm so new to rifle reloading.  I'd want to hear from some more experienced reloaders. It also could be powder specific and weather specific.  CFE223 in the midwest in the winter.

 

12 hours ago, AHI said:

Have you called Lyman/Mark7 about this lately?

 

I spoke with John from Lyman/Mark7, who also posted in this thread a few times.  He has been very willing and helpful in troubleshooing the issue.  The last we spoke he had me disassemble, clean and reassemble the powder measure which I did.  I have not called back since I further tested.  I probably will here shortly.

 

 

[flwr2019]

One thing that we've noticed (we're running 9mm not rifle loads) is that the powder measure sensor won't throw a code for a small variation either. We're aiming for 4.5 gr powder and it will wiz past the sensor with 4.3 or 4.7 gr. We're thinking its two issues rather than one, on our end at least. Has anyone tried altering or using a different powder sensor? I realize it would likely cause more press stops (causing more powder drop issues) but at least it would catch the mistake before seating the bullet. We've only been at this for 6 months now, but did go down to Florida for training by Mk7 and have a tech come see us as well. Like ddc said, I dont think its a press issue as much as just a powder measure issue. I will try adding more time to both the top and bottom dwells to see if that would help. 

[ddc]

1 hour ago, flwr2019 said:

One thing that we've noticed (we're running 9mm not rifle loads) is that the powder measure sensor won't throw a code for a small variation either. We're aiming for 4.5 gr powder and it will wiz past the sensor with 4.3 or 4.7 gr. We're thinking its two issues rather than one, on our end at least. Has anyone tried altering or using a different powder sensor? I realize it would likely cause more press stops (causing more powder drop issues) but at least it would catch the mistake before seating the bullet. We've only been at this for 6 months now, but did go down to Florida for training by Mk7 and have a tech come see us as well. Like ddc said, I dont think its a press issue as much as just a powder measure issue. I will try adding more time to both the top and bottom dwells to see if that would help. 

 

I did not realize there were powder measure sensors that would detect  a +/- 0.2 grain threshold reliably but I'm not knowledgeable about Mk 7 sensors.

 

In my limited, non-Mk 7, experience powder checks are for "is there some powder in the case:  yes/no" type checking.