CZ Tactical Sport Recoil Buffer

[SuperKing]

Have an old Tactical Sport in 40 S&W.

I was planning on running it without the recoil buffer, but if I do so the slide seems to freely go back and forth freely a bit. The amount that the slide goes back and forth is slightly less than the thickness of a thin recoil buffer. Been searching through numerous forums posts, but I can't really find a mention of this issue.

 

Just wondering if anyone has experience with this.

 

Thanks

 

EDIT: So, I would actually say the movement is about 1mm or 2 according to the video I posted.
https://youtu.be/0j-gpu16fQ8

 

Edited August 11, 2021 by SuperKing

[muncie21]

I’ve shot my .40 TSO over 20K rounds without a recoil buffer, with no issues or visual damage. Wouldn’t hesitate to put another 20K through it the same way, except I’m shooting a 2011 in limited now days

[SuperKing]

Just now, muncie21 said:

I’ve shot my .40 TSO over 20K rounds without a recoil buffer, with no issues or visual damage. Wouldn’t hesitate to put another 20K through it the same way, except I’m shooting a 2011 in limited now days

Yep, most people seem to have no issues running without the buffer. I myself at least run my Shadow 2 without one, but that isn't what I am asking about in this case.

Without the buffer and with the hammer back, the slide will have enough front to back play that it will freely move back and forth. My Shadow 2 without the buffer will not let the slide freely move like that, so that is why I was wondering if anyone else has seen this.

[muncie21]

6 minutes ago, SuperKing said:

Without the buffer and with the hammer back, the slide will have enough front to back play that it will freely move back and forth.

I misunderstood you question OP. This made me curious enough to check my CZs. When cocked, the recoil spring holds the slide back with no movement, without compressing the spring. With that said, if there is any slide movement with the hammer cocked, I’d say there’s an issue.  

[SuperKing]

@muncie21 No problem. Seems like an issue, but I wanted to make sure that this wasn't normal. Doesn't seem like I can do anything about it besides run it with the buffer. I was hoping to get rid of it since it seems like the TS goes through them pretty quick.

[Midwest3Gunner]

I started a thread recently, I've been running without a recoil buffer and I'm getting weird peening on the barrel. Have you noticed anything like any of my pictures, either the barrel or the machining on the slide?

 

 

[Superkaratemonkeyfighter]

So with the hammer back and no buffer the slide will come out of battery freely ? 

[SuperKing]

@Midwest3Gunner I have yet to fire it without the buffer so I am sorry to say that I can't confirm whether or not I will see the same peening as you. I'll of course let you know.

 

17 minutes ago, Superkaratemonkeyfighter said:

So with the hammer back and no buffer the slide will come out of battery freely ? 

I don't think it's technically coming out of battery since the barrel itself moves with the slide. 

Here's what I am seeing: 

 

[assnolax]

Looks like your recoil spring guide is resting against the barrel instead of the frame.  Guide rod in good shape? Is this with the matching barrel? 

[SuperKing]

On 8/11/2021 at 8:14 AM, assnolax said:

Looks like your recoil spring guide is resting against the barrel instead of the frame.  Guide rod in good shape? Is this with the matching barrel? 

Yep, I didn't think this was normal since I hear many people running without the buffer. The steel guide rod seems fine and the barrel is the matching/original one; same serial as the frame and slide.

 

I could try sourcing the original plastic or polymer guide rod to see if that changes things.

 

I was able to email Eric from CZC about this. He said that they had run into this when they were mounting TS slides on 75 frames. The solution they had was to take off material on the front face of the kidney lug, but he suggested removing the locater nub off the rear of the guide rod first. I did try the latter, but no change to the back and forth.

Edited August 12, 2021 by SuperKing

[Superkaratemonkeyfighter]

So it’s like the recoil spring is not putting enough pressure on the slide and by adding the buffer it lengthened the spring. 
does it chew up buffers ?

[SuperKing]

54 minutes ago, Superkaratemonkeyfighter said:

So it’s like the recoil spring is not putting enough pressure on the slide and by adding the buffer it lengthened the spring. 
does it chew up buffers ?

Almost, but not quite I think? So, the rod is not actually making contact with the frame soon enough and the buffer lets the rod make contact with the frame sooner. Definitely does chew the s#!t out of the buffer either way though.

[Jim Watson]

I don't know about a CZ, but my 1911 oriented gunsmith says any sort of movement like that, a "dead slide", is a major fault.

[Superkaratemonkeyfighter]

It’s strange it’s made it this far. Could it be some weird wear issue ? 

did those older guns come with a aluminum buffer ? 
 

[SuperKing]

1 hour ago, Jim Watson said:

I don't know about a CZ, but my 1911 oriented gunsmith says any sort of movement like that, a "dead slide", is a major fault.

Yeah, that's what I figured, but this is my only single-action CZ, so I wasn't too sure.

 

37 minutes ago, Superkaratemonkeyfighter said:

It’s strange it’s made it this far. Could it be some weird wear issue ? 

did those older guns come with a aluminum buffer ? 
 

I am guessing (since I am not the original owner) that it was always run with a buffer so this never came up? Doesn't appear to be a wear issue as I am not finding any strange wear markings on the frame, barrel or slide, but while handy with tools, I am not an experienced gunsmith. Don't know of any local gunsmiths that are experienced with CZs either.

Haven't come across any mention of brass or aluminum buffers used with TSs in my searching either. 

[CZ85Combat]

Eric from CZC is correct. You will need to fit the face of the barrel kidney to the frame.  I had the same problem on my Czechmate.  When the slide was closed there was play.  Changed to the second barrel and the play was gone. When I measured the two barrels the kidney on the #1 barrel was about 0.050" longer and with the slide closed the barrel would push the guide rod just out of contact with the frame.  With the slide closed the barrel should not touch the guide rod.  The fix for my Czechmate was to remove about 0.040" off the front of the barrel kidney. 25,000+ rounds latter still going strong with only having to replace 1 slide stop and 2 recoil springs.

Edited August 11, 2021 by CZ85Combat

[SuperKing]

@CZ85Combat Gotcha. Yeah, removing some material off of the front face of the lug was what I was going to try next since Eric's first suggestion did not appear to fix the issue. What sort of tools or method did you use to remove material off of your barrel?

[Superkaratemonkeyfighter]

That gun was originally a 40 cal ? 
not a 9mm that someone put a .40 cal upper on right ?

[SuperKing]

Just now, Superkaratemonkeyfighter said:

That gun was originally a 40 cal ? 
not a 9mm that someone put a .40 cal upper on right ?

As far as I know, it's originally a 40. The barrel, slide and frame are stamped with the same serial number, so I would think it is more than likely its stock config is 40.

[CZ85Combat]

First you need to check to see if this is the issue.  remove your slide, remove the barrel, install the barrel without the slide. Use the slide stop to hold the barrel in the frame. You will need a light that you can shine into the frame and see if the barrel kidney is past the frame where the guide rod would sit.  With the barrel pushed fully forward and looking from the muzzle end under the barrel and above the frame you can see the guide rod seat. if the kidney is past the seat you will  need to trim the kidney.  You kind of need 3 1/2 hands. If you have a way to hold the frame muzzle up you can also use the guide rod to see how much the barrel pushes the guide rod away from the frame.  Take the guide rod and hold it in the frame and when you move the barrel you will feel it push the guide rod.

[SuperKing]

@CZ85Combat Yep, after seeing your first post that is what I did to confirm that is what is happening. I have a few tools (ceramic files, regular files, dremmel etc) What did you use to remove that material?

[CZ85Combat]

I used a end mill in a drill press. The material need to be to be removed evenly. Unless you are really good at fitting parts with a file I don't think that's a good option.  mess up and you will need to buy a new barrel. If you have access to a mill that would be best. A good drill press with a Cross Sliding Vise is what I used. If you don't have access to either, find someone that does.

[SuperKing]

I've fit several barrels for Tanfos and CZs, but the amount of material that needs to be removed sounds like a pain with just ceramic files. 

[CZ85Combat]

When I did mine I milled a little off and test fit the barrel, milled a little more off and test fit.  Milled an test 4X to get it right  Milling off 0.010"-0.015" at a time.

[yigal]

23 hours ago, SuperKing said:

 

 

I was able to email Eric from CZC about this. He said that they had run into this when they were mounting TS frames on 75 frames. The solution they had was to take off material on the front face of the kidney lug, but he suggested removing the locater nub off the rear of the guide rod first. I did try the latter, but no change to the back and forth.

Sometimes people need to think a few steps ahead