performance difference on any CO pistol, milled slide vs. dovetail mount

[obsessiveshooter]

So what's the consensus here?  I know the dovetail mount will add weight and push the optic a bit higher, but do those two things make a noticeable difference on the dot returning to zero, as compared to a milled slide on the same pistol? 

And, if it does slow you down with a dovetail mount, does removing weight elsewhere on the slide make it even between the two options?  

Thanks, searching on Enos didn't turn up much current info on this topic.    

[zzt]

I have both dovetail adapted and milled slide mounted dots.  In both cases I had the slide lightened by approximately the same amount so the action would not be slowed.  You are correct in that the dovetail adapter raises the dot higher.  That really only comes into play with head shots at 5 yards with a NS covering the rest of the target.  You do have to compensate more with a higher mounted dot.  Otherwise, a little dry fire practice with either method will have you ready to roll.

 

I'll note that milling the slide removes material in exactly the right spot.  When you lighten a slide you still want to keep it balanced.  Also, if for some reason you want co-witness, milling is your only choice.

Edited September 12, 2020 by zzt

[AverageJoeShooting]

I used a ton of adapter plates for 9 major and all of them broke. eventually i just milled the slide and everything was 100% better

This was prior to me fully jumping into the open game

[SGT_Schultz]

9 hours ago, AverageJoeShooting said:

I used a ton of adapter plates for 9 major and all of them broke. eventually i just milled the slide and everything was 100% better

This was prior to me fully jumping into the open game

 

Whose adapter plates?  That makes a difference.

[SGT_Schultz]

On 9/12/2020 at 11:18 AM, obsessiveshooter said:

So what's the consensus here?  I know the dovetail mount will add weight and push the optic a bit higher, but do those two things make a noticeable difference on the dot returning to zero, as compared to a milled slide on the same pistol? 

And, if it does slow you down with a dovetail mount, does removing weight elsewhere on the slide make it even between the two options?  

Thanks, searching on Enos didn't turn up much current info on this topic.    

 

I don't think there's a hill of beans of difference.  It's like trying to figure out how many angles fit on the head of a pin.

 

I like adapter plates and guns that come from the factory setup for them because a) I don't have to pay more for the same feature and b) I'm not tied down to a particular footprint.

Edited September 13, 2020 by SGT_Schultz

[shred]

There is a difference.  But it's not a difference that makes any difference to the score as far as I can tell, just a difference in 'feel'

 

I've got CO guns with both and put quite a few rounds through them, sometimes back to back, sometimes day to day or week to week on similar drills.  I'm also a GM in Open and won a few things back in the day, so have an idea how to operate a dot gun.

 

Dovetail optics do sit higher than milled-in.  Either way is still lower than a frame-mount Open gun.  Nobody cares about the height of a dot on an Open gun except for holdovers.  So not really a big thing for DT vs milled.  Max difference is what an inch, usually half that?

 

The dot movement can be different between the two.  My dots seem bouncier on the dovetail mounts probably due to being further from the pivot point, but try as I might, I couldn't make what looked like a faster snappier dot on the milled-in or plate guns actually shoot any faster for the same points on the clock.  Felt faster, yes.  Was faster, no.  

 

If I had to pick one, I'd do a milled-with-plates model just to make changing out dots and/or irons easier.  But I wouldn't expect it to be any more competitive than a dovetail mount.  If your shooting style or personality or whatever prefers something, do that.

 

 

 

[obsessiveshooter]

There is a difference.  But it's not a difference that makes any difference to the score as far as I can tell, just a difference in 'feel'
 
I've got CO guns with both and put quite a few rounds through them, sometimes back to back, sometimes day to day or week to week on similar drills.  I'm also a GM in Open and won a few things back in the day, so have an idea how to operate a dot gun.
 
Dovetail optics do sit higher than milled-in.  Either way is still lower than a frame-mount Open gun.  Nobody cares about the height of a dot on an Open gun except for holdovers.  So not really a big thing for DT vs milled.  Max difference is what an inch, usually half that?
 
The dot movement can be different between the two.  My dots seem bouncier on the dovetail mounts probably due to being further from the pivot point, but try as I might, I couldn't make what looked like a faster snappier dot on the milled-in or plate guns actually shoot any faster for the same points on the clock.  Felt faster, yes.  Was faster, no.  
 
If I had to pick one, I'd do a milled-with-plates model just to make changing out dots and/or irons easier.  But I wouldn't expect it to be any more competitive than a dovetail mount.  If your shooting style or personality or whatever prefers something, do that.
 
 
 

This is the advice I was searching for. Thanks!
I'm going with milling. I like the idea of removing roughly the equivalent weight of the optic from the slide mass, instead of adding the weight of a DT and the optic to the slide. And having the dot sit lower will be nice, since I'm primarily an iron sight shooter.


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[AverageJoeShooting]

16 hours ago, SGT_Schultz said:

 

Whose adapter plates?  That makes a difference.

all the ones they make for the m&P 2.0

[Fishbreath]

9 hours ago, obsessiveshooter said:

And having the dot sit lower will be nice, since I'm primarily an iron sight shooter.

 

This is a good thing to keep in mind. My Carry Optics gun is a CZ P-09 with a dovetail sight plate. I also have a .40 slide for it, which I swap in to shoot Limited now and then, and my presentation is always off for a stage or two before I get used to the switch.

[SGT_Schultz]

12 hours ago, AverageJoeShooting said:

all the ones they make for the m&P 2.0

 

Makes me glad I went with CZ P-10s and their Optics Ready system.  The plates are steel, thick, and have recoil lug that engages in two degrees of freedom.

 

10,500 rounds through an RMR mounted that way without a single issue.  Not one.