Classifier - Incorrect Start Position

[IVC]

At the all-classifier (Level 1) match this Sunday a guy started Tick-Tock 13-05 with the hammer cocked. The RO was clearly not certified, which is often the case at Level 1 matches. 

 

I said that the hammer should be down, but didn't interfere further. The RO ran the shooter (low score, inexperienced shooter; not that it matters, but it does...). The main reason I wasn't more forceful is that I looked at the WSB and it didn't say "hammer down," and I wasn't sure about the "default rule" from the top of my head without actually searching for it and significantly delaying the squad. Sure enough, rule 8.1.3 specifies that "... hammer or striker must be fully down...," but it also says "...unless otherwise specified in the stage briefing."

 

So, first the plain reading of the text. When the WSB does *not* specify hammer position, that is *not* considered as "WSB allows any hammer position because it doesn't forbid hammer up." Instead, it's simply missing the specification, therefore the "must" part of the 8.1.3 kicks in and the hammer must be down. Correct? 

 

More importantly, what *should* a squad member who is not on the staff do at a low level match in situation like this? The rule 7.3.2 is clear that regular competitors who are also ROs have no authority, so the only official action is to bring this up to the MD (there is typically no official CRO/RM and MD doubles as the RM). However, it would quickly become tiresome and ruin the match for everyone if someone kept complaining about all the "shooter ready" and "slide, hammer, holster" commands or complaining about the hammer up on a sub 40% run. What are you guys doing in similar situations (not the theory, the actual doing)? 

[MemphisMechanic]

I assume this took place in Production or CO?

 

If so it’s never permissable to start with the gun in single action. Unless you’d like to finish the match in Open - or a match DQ if you don’t activate the safety.  

 

Edited December 23, 2019 by MemphisMechanic

[Sarge]

14 minutes ago, MemphisMechanic said:

I assume this took place in Production or CO?

 

If so it’s never permissable to start with the gun in single action. Unless you’d like to finish the match in Open - or a match DQ if you don’t activate the safety.  

 

This. What division? The appendices are where you find hammer down requirements for Pro & CO. Was the safety on? If not it’s all moot as that’s a DQ.

[davsco]

i always chime in (to the RO and shooter) if i see someone being started with an incorrect start position/condition.  i don't think anyone really wants to do the stage incorrectly and it's too easy to get it wrong given every stage generally has something different (inside the box, outside the box, etc).  and if i'm (as RO) starting someone wrong, i def welcome the correction from anyone in the squad.

[MikeBurgess]

8.1.3 says hammer must be down for empty chamber starts regardless of division. at a club match where not all the ROs are running at 100% on the rules I always take the opportunity to inform them of the correct rules, as long as you present it as being helpful and informative it normally goes over well as most want to know and do the right thing.

[IVC]

This was an unloaded start and the shooter was already in Open. The reason hammer was up is that he was playing with the gun before putting it down with trigger on the X mark on the table. Technically, it's just a mandatory reshoot in 8.2.2 provided that WSB for this particular classifier cannot be interpreted as allowing hammer up start.

[IVC]

3 hours ago, MemphisMechanic said:

If so it’s never permissable to start with the gun in single action. Unless you’d like to finish the match in Open - or a match DQ if you don’t activate the safety.  

It was an unloaded start - both of your points are very valid, but they require loaded start. 

[Sarge]

1 hour ago, IVC said:

It was an unloaded start - both of your points are very valid, but they require loaded start. 

Ok. So, around here damn near everybody is a CRO or RO. We tend to speak up and we tend to appreciate it as shooters or RO’s. It saves time, ammo, etc compared to reshooting everything all day long.

[waktasz]

Same here. There are always a handful of ROs and usually multiple CROs on each squad at most of the matches I go to. For incorrect start positions someone just yells stop and sorts it out before they start, assuming someone noticed, to prevent having them have to reshoot. 

[IVC]

3 hours ago, waktasz said:

Same here. There are always a handful of ROs and usually multiple CROs on each squad at most of the matches I go to. For incorrect start positions someone just yells stop and sorts it out before they start, assuming someone noticed, to prevent having them have to reshoot. 

Agreed, that's how it's at my "home range" where we have 100+ shooters every match (bi-weekly) and a large group of regulars. However, I was at another range and felt like a guest. Wasn't sure about the proper etiquette...