Ming the Merciless Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 13 hours ago, nasty618 said: But i think you all have seen more than a few of these "RO missed DQ" pics and videos posted by the USPSA on their social media. You would think wrong.....I don't social media. I'm just barely sociable enough for this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerba Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 On 11/22/2019 at 10:14 AM, nasty618 said: Maybe some remedial training for the ROs, I don't think so. most of the time it's the shooter sprinting away from their position leaving the RO not in a good position to see the infraction. and it all happens so fast that if the RO is not 100% sure, he shouldn't be calling the DQ. the RO does not get to view pictures from every possible angle to make the call. even pictures can be deceiving - example: the second picture above posted by Nasty618 - I don't think that his finger is in the trigger guard in that picture...at least I am not 100% sure, so I will not call a DQ on that one...even with the picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 3 minutes ago, racerba said: I don't think so. most of the time it's the shooter sprinting away from their position leaving the RO not in a good position to see the infraction. and it all happens so fast that if the RO is not 100% sure, he shouldn't be calling the DQ. the RO does not get to view pictures from every possible angle to make the call. even pictures can be deceiving - example: the second picture above posted by Nasty618 - I don't think that his finger is in the trigger guard in that picture...at least I am not 100% sure, so I will not call a DQ on that one...even with the picture. agreed, finger in a trigger guard while moving is a pretty difficult call to make, and I also agree that many of the pix don't conclusively show a violation anyway. Some folks don't move their finger very far away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nasty618 Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 On 11/25/2019 at 12:51 PM, racerba said: most of the time it's the shooter sprinting away from their position leaving the RO not in a good position to see the infraction. and it all happens so fast that if the RO is not 100% sure, he shouldn't be calling the DQ. the RO does not get to view pictures from every possible angle to make the call. Well, the RO does not get to view any pictures, period. And perhaps you're right, there are not always things to be learned... But in this particular case, if some of those pics DO show a DQ and the photographer WAS able to see it with his lens... then shouldn't we be curious to know why the back up ROs were not in the appropriate spot where they could have seen it easily? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egd5 Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 Being a photographer also I can attest that a 1/1000 second exposure of that instant in time will show many things that the human eye cannot see. Especially when you crop out a small section of the original picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerba Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, nasty618 said: Well, the RO does not get to view any pictures, period. And perhaps you're right, there are not always things to be learned... But in this particular case, if some of those pics DO show a DQ and the photographer WAS able to see it with his lens... then shouldn't we be curious to know why the back up ROs were not in the appropriate spot where they could have seen it easily? because stuff happens in different places for different people...and as an CRO/RO, you don't see these infractions until much later when the photos come out, so you couldn't place an RO to look out for such infractions at any "appropriate" location for this type of an infraction. "Finger in trigger" is not an infraction that you are expecting someone to do like breaking the 180 at this location or foot fault at that location. Remember, as an RO - you are there to assist the shooter to navigate the course safely, not try and catch them at a DQable moment. The photographer is usually stationed in one particular spot on the stage and will catch some people with finger in the trigger in those few moments. How many is the photographer catching at one particular match that run hundreds of shooters through? probably less than you can count on one hand. And is the picture really a true representative of the actual action? So is it worth it to station an RO at that particular location to catch those few shooters at that gotcha moment? IMHO - no... Edited December 2, 2019 by racerba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerba Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 2 hours ago, egd5 said: Being a photographer also I can attest that a 1/1000 second exposure of that instant in time will show many things that the human eye cannot see. Especially when you crop out a small section of the original picture. exactly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nasty618 Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 (edited) 19 hours ago, egd5 said: Being a photographer also I can attest that a 1/1000 second exposure of that instant in time will show many things that the human eye cannot see. Especially when you crop out a small section of the original picture. Of course. But if you were to take a look at the series of pictures capturing those moments i think you would see that there was more than 1/1000 of a sec for some of these. 16 hours ago, racerba said: "Finger in trigger" is not an infraction that you are expecting someone to do like breaking the 180 at this location or foot fault at that location. Remember, as an RO - you are there to assist the shooter to navigate the course safely, not try and catch them at a DQable moment. Yes, one of ROs duties is to assist all competitors in their attempts to accomplish their goals without any undue harassment and authoritarian behavior. Since we agree on that, than we would also agree that RO's job is much broader than just that... I would hope that we should also agree that a good RO would know and expect every possible infraction at any moment and be knowledgeable enough to handle any one of them, even if all that involves is calling the CRO or the RM In any case, i dont disagree - I think everyone has made valid points. But seems that we're nitpicking just a bit. I am not sure it's worth taking this any further, since, unless i totally misunderstood it, the original topic of the thread was "questionable" pictures being posted or published by the organization. Edited December 3, 2019 by nasty618 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerba Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 58 minutes ago, nasty618 said: I would hope that we should also agree that a good RO would know and expect every possible infraction at any moment yes, a good RO will be expecting every possible infraction at any moment...but they cannot predict where the infraction will occur - referring back to your suggestion to place an RO in a location to be able to see the finger in the trigger infraction... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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