PC Bullets in 9mm Minor Open

[ezra650]

Just picked up my first open gun this week (yayy!!... I think). I wanted to do a poll of sorts and see the results of shooters running home powder coated bullets and commercial coated bullets. I cast and coat my own and was hoping I could at least get by using them for minor steel loads. I'll be using RMR or PD copper bullets for major most likely. I've read the thread about coated for major so lets just try and avoid rehashing that topic. I'm thinking my minor steel load will be around 150pf or so. Whatever works the comp enough and keeps the gun reliably running. I already have Longshot powder on hand and will be getting some HS-6 so even better if you are using those powders. Thanks in advance. 

 

 See the questionnaire below...

 

Bullet Weight/Mold/Profile/Manufacturer:

Powder Brand and Charge weight:

COAL:

Velocity (FPS):

Recoil Spring Brand/ Weight:

Cleaning Requirements for gun: I.E. Number of rounds before cleaning comp, cleaning procedure/methods etc.

 

 

 

[hamiltonian]

I only run jacketed in my open gun, and I am running it at 150-155 PF for steel challenge.  I know you didn't want anyone to tell you not to run coated at minor++ velocities, but it is close enough to major that I don't think coated is worth the hassle.  The coated work great in carry optics, PCC and limited, though.

[ezra650]

2 hours ago, hamiltonian said:

I only run jacketed in my open gun, and I am running it at 150-155 PF for steel challenge.  I know you didn't want anyone to tell you not to run coated at minor++ velocities, but it is close enough to major that I don't think coated is worth the hassle.  The coated work great in carry optics, PCC and limited, though.

Thanks for the info. If the cleaning/maintenance requirements are the same it might be the same choice for me. I can get by pretty cost efficient with plated bullets.

[ZackJones]

I'm working with a new Steel Challenge open blaster as well. Mine is a hybrid STI Steel Master top end mated to a single stack frame. The gun has a 8 or 9 pound spring in it. I'm pretty sure it's 8 but would have to double check later. 

 

I'm currently testing with HS-6 and Berry's 115 and 124 bullets. For the 115 I'm using 6.3 grains and 124 I'm using 6.0. Both recipes are from the HS-6 load data page online. I've shot 3 matches with the gun so far and it runs great with either load (Too bad I can't shoot worth a damn though). The gun will get a thorough cleaning this week in preparation for the US Steel Shoot that starts next week. Good luck finding a load that works well for you.

 

[ezra650]

Oh that's a cool setup. I really was planning to do a single stack open build just for steel, but a deal worked out for a 2011 and I do like to shoot some USPSA. Thanks for the HS-6 data, I'll start around there! 

[zzt]

I don't shoot anything but plated or JHPs in an of my Open guns.  In three seasons I've never cleaned any of the comps.  One club I shoot at requires lead or coated for steel, so I loaded some HiTek coated bullets and shot them.  100 shots later and I was cleaning crud out of the comp.  No thanks.

 

Your gun will tell you what your load has to be PF wise.  Two of my Open guns will not eject anything under 160PF.  The Open gun I just built will eject 149PF minor and 168 and 172PF major loads with the same spring.  Plus they shoot to the same POI.  Most of the guys I shoot steel with load their minor to 150-155PF.  That seems to be the sweet spot.

 

Mixed brass, CCI 500 9.1 gr Major Pistol powder, 115 HAP, 1.161"OAL= 149PF

same with 10.2gr MP = 168PF with the slowest load also at 168

same with 10.4gr MP = 171PF

 

7 lb recoil ISMI spring, 17 lb ISMI mainspring.  Can't say about cleaning, because I clean before every match.  If it helps, I shot about 20 rounds sighting a new dot in, about 100 move in practice (minor and major), then shot about 150 in a steel match.  There is barely any debris to wipe off.  I'm sure I could shoot more practice and another match without even reoiling the gun.  I won't though.

[ezra650]

12 hours ago, zzt said:

I don't shoot anything but plated or JHPs in an of my Open guns.  In three seasons I've never cleaned any of the comps.  One club I shoot at requires lead or coated for steel, so I loaded some HiTek coated bullets and shot them.  100 shots later and I was cleaning crud out of the comp.  No thanks.

 

Your gun will tell you what your load has to be PF wise.  Two of my Open guns will not eject anything under 160PF.  The Open gun I just built will eject 149PF minor and 168 and 172PF major loads with the same spring.  Plus they shoot to the same POI.  Most of the guys I shoot steel with load their minor to 150-155PF.  That seems to be the sweet spot.

 

Mixed brass, CCI 500 9.1 gr Major Pistol powder, 115 HAP, 1.161"OAL= 149PF

same with 10.2gr MP = 168PF with the slowest load also at 168

same with 10.4gr MP = 171PF

 

7 lb recoil ISMI spring, 17 lb ISMI mainspring.  Can't say about cleaning, because I clean before every match.  If it helps, I shot about 20 rounds sighting a new dot in, about 100 move in practice (minor and major), then shot about 150 in a steel match.  There is barely any debris to wipe off.  I'm sure I could shoot more practice and another match without even reoiling the gun.  I won't though.

Yeah I was wondering if it would be worth the cleaning. An ultra sonic might work, just lean the gun up in it with only the comp submerged.

 

Whose plated bullets do you shoot? I was looking at buying from  RMR bullets.

 

I've heard lots of people who like the World Shooters powder, might have to give it a try. Not very economical, but does such a thing in open exist haha  I'm probably going to order a 7lb, 8lb, and 9lb spring to see what the gun and I like. Right now I believe my gun has an 8lb in it.

 

Thanks for the data!

[zzt]

In 40 Open I prefer Rainier 155gr plated, but use X-Treme 155s when I can't get the Rainiers.  I have also used Montana Golds 155 JHPs.  I liked them a lot.  The Rainier and the MGs were the most accurate out of either of my 40 2011s.

 

In 9mm major and minor I use Hornady 115gr HAP.  There is no reason to go to plated in 9mm, because you can buy good JHPs for less than 1 cent more.  Plus, Rainiers are the only plated bullet as accurate as JHPs, and they cost the same, so why bother.  Also, you are pushing them to 1480fps and you risk having the plating fail.  Then you will be cleaning a LOT of lead out of the comp. 

 

I plan to order some Precision Delta 115s as soon as they have them back in stock.  I also have 1000 Everglades 124gr JHP that I ordered on a lark.  I really should get around to trying them.

 

I buy Major Pistol when it goes on sale for $136.99 ea. 8 lb. jug.  That's less that I would pay for WAC, Silhouette or HS-6 and it is way better than all of those.

 

You should also try some variable rate springs.  They have a different feel than standard.

[Foxbat]

I tried the coated bullets... accuracy was way down, and tons of lead in the comp, so no more.  Only JHP for me.

[jklt222]

In my Limcat Steelcat Im running Montana Gold FMJ 124's over 4.3 of VV N320 for 9m minor. Shoots flat and very accurate.

[ezra650]

On 3/28/2019 at 3:15 PM, Foxbat said:

I tried the coated bullets... accuracy was way down, and tons of lead in the comp, so no more.  Only JHP for me.

Even for minor? Dang... My ultrasonic cleaner with the right solution might make it doable for cleaning. Just have to keep it off the comp threads or might risk breaking the comp loose.

 

I kind of toyed with the idea of using gas checks too since I already cast and coat my own bullets anyway.

[zzt]

A gas check will not help it the lands are cutting the coating, or your powder is melting the back of the coating.  A friend was shooting coated bullets and cleaning his comp.  He let it sit for hours in a solution of Hydrogen Peroxide and vinegar.  It eventually got loose enough that he could pick the lead out.  He now shoots Montana Gold JHP.

[ezra650]

2 hours ago, zzt said:

A gas check will not help it the lands are cutting the coating, or your powder is melting the back of the coating.  A friend was shooting coated bullets and cleaning his comp.  He let it sit for hours in a solution of Hydrogen Peroxide and vinegar.  It eventually got loose enough that he could pick the lead out.  He now shoots Montana Gold JHP.

Enough said... I'll be saving the coated bullets for my 1911 iron sight gun.

 

Where are you buying major pistol powder for that price at? With 10.4gr in the case I'm guessing it's a compressed load?

 

Planning to do some load testing this week. 

 

Do you spray your comp with lanolin or anything? I've been doing that for my 22 comp and it makes a big difference in cleaning.

[zzt]

I buy Major Pistol from Grafs & Son when it goes on sale.  I just got another 16 lbs.  Otherwise it's $150+ or so.  They just raised shipping to $9.99 and Hazmat to $12.99.  It used to be better, but it is still worth it.  You can buy a lot of powder and primers for one Hazmat fee.  I bought the first batch from Midsouth Shooters.  They often have sales with no Hazmat fee if you buy a certain amount of what they have on special.  Shooters World was very highly promoted.

 

I'm loading 10.4 under a 115gr HAP at 1.161" OAL.  If the powder is compressed at all, it is microscopically.  MP compresses well.  At the request of another poster here I put 10.2gr MP under a 115 HAP and seated it to 1.126", but did not crimp.  The round didn't grow, and two months later it still hasn't grown.  You don't have worry about compressing MP.

 

I tried spraying the comp, when new, with something like lanolin.  I didn't like it.  I was a black, gooey mess.  I wiped it out and just shot it as is.  With MP and JHP, everything burns clean.  All the residual lanolin crud burned out and I have clean, dark grey bottoms and sides on the comp.  It is so clean I can still see the machining marks in the ports.

 

BTW, I haven't cleaned any of my comps in three years.  If you only shoot heavy plate or JHP, you don't gunk them up.  With dirty powders I get a little carbon residue.  Then I switch to clean powders and it burns all that out.  I have a little over a pound of WAC left, plus 4 lbs. of Silhouette.  I'll use them up in minor loads for steel challenge.  When they are gone it's MP all the way.  I'm going to sell my 3N38.  It would work with 124s, but with 115s it's just too frustrating.  The HS-6 will get dumped in the garden.  I just don't like it.

[ezra650]

17 hours ago, zzt said:

I buy Major Pistol from Grafs & Son when it goes on sale.  I just got another 16 lbs.  Otherwise it's $150+ or so.  They just raised shipping to $9.99 and Hazmat to $12.99.  It used to be better, but it is still worth it.  You can buy a lot of powder and primers for one Hazmat fee.  I bought the first batch from Midsouth Shooters.  They often have sales with no Hazmat fee if you buy a certain amount of what they have on special.  Shooters World was very highly promoted.

 

I'm loading 10.4 under a 115gr HAP at 1.161" OAL.  If the powder is compressed at all, it is microscopically.  MP compresses well.  At the request of another poster here I put 10.2gr MP under a 115 HAP and seated it to 1.126", but did not crimp.  The round didn't grow, and two months later it still hasn't grown.  You don't have worry about compressing MP.

 

I tried spraying the comp, when new, with something like lanolin.  I didn't like it.  I was a black, gooey mess.  I wiped it out and just shot it as is.  With MP and JHP, everything burns clean.  All the residual lanolin crud burned out and I have clean, dark grey bottoms and sides on the comp.  It is so clean I can still see the machining marks in the ports.

 

BTW, I haven't cleaned any of my comps in three years.  If you only shoot heavy plate or JHP, you don't gunk them up.  With dirty powders I get a little carbon residue.  Then I switch to clean powders and it burns all that out.  I have a little over a pound of WAC left, plus 4 lbs. of Silhouette.  I'll use them up in minor loads for steel challenge.  When they are gone it's MP all the way.  I'm going to sell my 3N38.  It would work with 124s, but with 115s it's just too frustrating.  The HS-6 will get dumped in the garden.  I just don't like it.

I'll definitely be keeping an eye out for a sale.  Good to hear there is no compression worries. Thanks for the info!

 

I mix denatured alcohol and lanolin wax 10:1 in a spray bottle. Works great for brass lube on pistol and leaves a thin film on the comp. You have to respray the 22 comps every 200-300rd or so. I stay on top of it with a pick and q tip. Clean in 5 minutes and gets resprayed. Probably not worth wasting the solution if I'm shooting copper bullets in open.

 

Yep I think I'll just be ordering hollowpoints from PD or RMR from now on. Ordering 2k at a time is a good price break and I doubt I'll shoot more than 2 matches a month and 2 practice sessions. You prefer the 115gr over the 124gr? My primary game right now is steel so thats why I just ordered 115gr. If I can make major with 115gr easily I may just use it for uspsa as well.

 

Depending on how much you have I'll pay hazmat for you to ship the HS-6...   It's gonna be another month+ before I can buy the keg of HS-6 off my shooting buddy.

[zzt]

I have less than a pound of HS-6 left.  Not worth shipping.

 

I started with 115s because that's what I wanted to use for Steel Challenge.  So I ordered 3000.  That will keep me for half a season unless I start shooting them for USPSA also.  It turned out all the horror stories about 9 major and 115s were bunk.  If I had to use 3N38 and 115s for major I'd be pulling my hair out, but not with MP.

 

I've loaded some 124s and will shoot and chrono tomorrow.  If I like them I'll order more.  If not, I'll order more HAPs while they are still on sale.  PD is out of 115s at the moment.

[ezra650]

28 minutes ago, zzt said:

I have less than a pound of HS-6 left.  Not worth shipping.

 

I started with 115s because that's what I wanted to use for Steel Challenge.  So I ordered 3000.  That will keep me for half a season unless I start shooting them for USPSA also.  It turned out all the horror stories about 9 major and 115s were bunk.  If I had to use 3N38 and 115s for major I'd be pulling my hair out, but not with MP.

 

I've loaded some 124s and will shoot and chrono tomorrow.  If I like them I'll order more.  If not, I'll order more HAPs while they are still on sale.  PD is out of 115s at the moment.

Well shucks. 

 

Yep that's why I ordered from RMR. I just got the 115gr round nose plate, but next time will be going with jacketed HP. The price difference is nominal. If I can see any benefit of 124gr compared to 115gr in major then I will stock 124s for USPSA and load 115s for steel. I've alwasy shot 124gr through my single stack, but of course that's a completely different animal.

[muncie21]

interesting thread.  I have a 9mm open pistol that I'm in the process of dialing in.  I've shot many rounds of RMR, Precision Delta and Hi-tek coated rounds through it with no visible leading of the comp

[ezra650]

On 4/5/2019 at 6:46 PM, muncie21 said:

interesting thread.  I have a 9mm open pistol that I'm in the process of dialing in.  I've shot many rounds of RMR, Precision Delta and Hi-tek coated rounds through it with no visible leading of the comp

I think one of the main issues is not always lead, but the coating coming off as it travels through the comp. The comp acts like a blast chamber and throws off pieces of the coating. There are a lot of variables going on. Which gunpowder you use, how hot of ammo, which brand coating etc. Some deal with it, others don't. You can get 9mm coated 115s for $2.80 per lb shipped so...

 

I'm actually about to order some 115gr Hi-tek bullets next month for my iron sight 1911. My 115s for steel are only going 1100FPS so I might put 200 of the Hi-tek through the gun and see how they do. I'll definitely be sticking to JHP for major though. Not worth the headache. 

Edited April 17, 2019 by ezra650

[igolfat8]

Hi Ezra,

I cast and coat my own pills and shoot about 15K per year through my open G34s. What I have found is HiTek coating will deposit lead in my comps and lots of it. Where as Powder Coating will only leave a trace of lead in my comps. Another thing is if your using RS lead you need to let it age for a minimum of a month after cast into boolits to allow the lead to harden up. It seems harder lead will leave less lead behind.

 

I have to clean my comps about every 3000 rounds. I remove the comp and submerge it in a 1:1 mixture of peroxide and vinegar. Then put that (open) container in a water bath in an ultrasonic cleaner and cycle it 3-4 (4 minute) cycles. This will usually remove all of the lead in the comp. If you have heavy build up you may have to put the comp in a fresh mixture and repeat the cycle. It sure beats digging it out with a screwdriver and picks.

 

You can also soak the comp a couple days in Kroil, then install it and shoot a couple rounds and the lead blows right out the baffles. It’s messy but works.

 

All powder coat paint is not created equal. I’ve had the best success with using Smokes PC paint. He is a vendor on the cast Boolit forum.

 

If you are shooting minor, try 124 (Lee 120 mold) over 4.2 of WSF. It’s a nice soft load for steel but still makes a decent amount of gas to allow the comp to flatten out the muzzle. Another favorite mold of mine is Lee’s 95 which I’ve pushed to >1600 FPS with no leading and very little comp build up.

 

I use aluminum comps (Carver Custom and Jaeger) but I only get about 7500 rounds through them before I replace them. The through holes get blown out from gas cutting and by 7500 rounds they are about the size of a 45 hole.

[Bravo_Victor]

In my Czechmate im running 100gr Berrys with 3.9gr of TG and they run perfect. In my Akai Open since it has a ton of holes in it, i run 95gr MG HP with 8.0gr of HS-6

[sstephns]

Myself along with a ton of other people run 124/125 gr blue bullets without issue. 10k on this since last cleaning and the comp is fine and I don't have accuracy issues. Apparently coated bullets are the devil, but I dont have any issues