Hiperfire 24c + firing pin = ....?

[vgdvc]

Hello PCC shooters. So in my effort to make my ATI carbine more competitive than stock I have put in a Blitzkrieg 507 buffer with .308 carbine spring, different grip and C-more standard sight. I worked up some soft shooting loads with 147coated and have just recently put in a Hiperfire 24c trigger. The heaviest springs which yields the lightest pull is right at 2 pounds and feels very nice with a slight rolling break. It does hit the primers (CCI pistol)very hard. I have been reading that supposedly the 24c is part of the contributing factor to damaged firing pins in 9mm. Broken tips,mushroom at the strike point,etcetera. Has anyone tried using a heavier than standard firing pin spring to lessen the forward momentum on the firing pin perhaps putting less stress on it and reducing the possibility of it breaking or the tip breaking? Any experienced advice is certainly welcome in trying to be proactive rather than reactive before a problem occurs, thanks.

[rstandley]

The problem with the current design on trigger groups is they are AR-15 trigger groups. they are sprung to fire the hard .223/5.56 rifle primers. The firing pin spring is to stop slam fires on the softer 9mm ammo primers. On the AR platforms the pin does not return back as far as the AR-9 platform, the pin is riding of the primer. that spring causes much more wear on the pin itself because of that little extra distance it travels  when the hammer hits it. The 9mm firing pin is to be considered a wear item. I went to CCI 550 primers that are slightly harder or small rifle primers at times.  I usually remove my good firing pin and install a broken one for dry firing practice. A strong spring also helps on dry firing. finding the right spring weight to absorb the extra energy of the AR trigger group would take a while and you could sell them when you found it. 

 For now, I don't dry fire with my good pin installed and run hard primers.  

[vgdvc]

8 minutes ago, rstandley said:

The problem with the current design on trigger groups is they are AR-15 trigger groups. they are sprung to fire the hard .223/5.56 rifle primers. The firing pin spring is to stop slam fires on the softer 9mm ammo primers. On the AR platforms the pin does not return back as far as the AR-9 platform, the pin is riding of the primer. that spring causes much more wear on the pin itself because of that little extra distance it travels  when the hammer hits it. The 9mm firing pin is to be considered a wear item. I went to CCI 550 primers that are slightly harder or small rifle primers at times.  I usually remove my good firing pin and install a broken one for dry firing practice. A strong spring also helps on dry firing. finding the right spring weight to absorb the extra energy of the AR trigger group would take a while and you could sell them when you found it. 

 For now, I don't dry fire with my good pin installed and run hard primers.  

Thanks for the response. I have a better understanding of what is causing some of the issue. I wouldn't mind trying to work with a heavier firing pin spring to try and reduce the forward momentum. Possibly even trimming a portion of one and adding it to work in tandem with the existing spring.

[dmshozer1]

2 minutes ago, vgdvc said:

Hello PCC shooters. So in my effort to make my ATI carbine more competitive than stock I have put in a Blitzkrieg 507 buffer with .308 carbine spring, different grip and C-more standard sight. I worked up some soft shooting loads with 147coated and have just recently put in a Hiperfire 24c trigger. The heaviest springs which yields the lightest pull is right at 2 pounds and feels very nice with a slight rolling break. It does hit the primers (CCI pistol)very hard. I have been reading that supposedly the 24c is part of the contributing factor to damaged firing pins in 9mm. Broken tips,mushroom at the strike point,etcetera. Has anyone tried using a heavier than standard firing pin spring to lessen the forward momentum on the firing pin perhaps putting less stress on it and reducing the possibility of it breaking or the tip breaking? Any experienced advice is certainly welcome in trying to be proactive rather than reactive before a problem occurs, thanks.

Just my opinion of course,

I have a Hyperfire in my .223 3gun rifle. Breaks at just under 2lbs. Never broke a firing pin in that gun after running it hard for three years. Where the light trigger pull helped

was making 200  to 400 yd shots. I don't think it made any major difference in my hoser stuff. The time i saved on faster splits did not make or break the match for me but it made a big difference time wise in shooting distance targets.

I have a 15 year old AR9 with a Timney 3.5lb trigger in it. Never broke a firing pin. Installed a Hyperfire and the broken firing pin problem started. I very rarely dry fire so that is not a

problem in my case. Put the Timney back in. Problem solved. In my opinion super fast splits are not what makes shooters win. Fast accurate movement, getting into and out of positions,

stage planning and a reliable gun are way more important that super fast splits. My all out fast as I could go splits on three 10 yd targets with the Hyperfire were avg 16. With the Timney they were 18. Not super fast but good enough for me.

My point is it appears that Hyperfire triggers because of hitting so hard they tend to break in 9 rifles. In .223's, no problem. At the distance we are shooting our PCC's I don't believe

we need a 2lb trigger. What we do need is a gun that does not break firing pins in a match. Which would you rather have. A little slower splits or a broken firing pin that completely takes you out of a match you paid big money to enter, motels, gas and food?

I think a Hyperfire in a .223 is fantastic! I don't think it needs to be in a gun where it could be a problem when there are better choices.

 

 

[vgdvc]

9 minutes ago, dmshozer1 said:

Just my opinion of course,

I have a Hyperfire in my .223 3gun rifle. Breaks at just under 2lbs. Never broke a firing pin in that gun after running it hard for three years. Where the light trigger pull helped

was making 200  to 400 yd shots. I don't think it made any major difference in my hoser stuff. The time i saved on faster splits did not make or break the match for me but it made a big difference time wise in shooting distance targets.

I have a 15 year old AR9 with a Timney 3.5lb trigger in it. Never broke a firing pin. Installed a Hyperfire and the broken firing pin problem started. I very rarely dry fire so that is not a

problem in my case. Put the Timney back in. Problem solved. In my opinion super fast splits are not what makes shooters win. Fast accurate movement, getting into and out of positions,

stage planning and a reliable gun are way more important that super fast splits. My all out fast as I could go splits on three 10 yd targets with the Hyperfire were avg 16. With the Timney they were 18. Not super fast but good enough for me.

My point is it appears that Hyperfire triggers because of hitting so hard they tend to break in 9 rifles. In .223's, no problem. At the distance we are shooting our PCC's I don't believe

we need a 2lb trigger. What we do need is a gun that does not break firing pins in a match. Which would you rather have. A little slower splits or a broken firing pin that completely takes you out of a match you paid big money to enter, motels, gas and food?

I think a Hyperfire in a .223 is fantastic! I don't think it needs to be in a gun where it could be a problem when there are better choices.

 

 

Thanks for the response. I agree reliability always dominates over slightly better performance (2lb vs 3lb etc) . I may try the heavier fp spring route and see if that shows no signs of bending or breaking the fo tip.  I could always also try using the lighter hammer springs with a 24 C which should give a heavier pull but less striking power. Did you ever try using the lighter striking power 24c springs to see if that would eliminate the damage to the firing pin?

[dmshozer1]

1 hour ago, vgdvc said:

Thanks for the response. I agree reliability always dominates over slightly better performance (2lb vs 3lb etc) . I may try the heavier fp spring route and see if that shows no signs of bending or breaking the fo tip.  I could always also try using the lighter hammer springs with a 24 C which should give a heavier pull but less striking power. Did you ever try using the lighter striking power 24c springs to see if that would eliminate the damage to the firing pin?

No I did not,

It would be a good experiment.

I put the Hyperfire in another .223. The Timney was working so I went with that.

The way my mind works I wanted to eliminate the problem all together.

Good luck.

[MoRivera]

I have a Hiperfire 'Reflex' (formerly 24E, I believe), and yeah I have to watch my firing pin, have a few extras.  Part of the design I guess.

[vgdvc]

2 hours ago, dmshozer1 said:

No I did not,

It would be a good experiment.

I put the Hyperfire in another .223. The Timney was working so I went with that.

The way my mind works I wanted to eliminate the problem all together.

Good luck.

I just put the lighter springs (red) in the 24c. (Mine came with two sets of springs from the factory,green-heaviest/red-lightest. I believe some of the older units came with three sets). Measures about 14 ounces heavier on the Lyman digital pull scale. Still  feels very good with the same rolling type break. Does seem to strike the same CCI  pistol primers less aggressively. Will most likely keep that in and see how things work out with firing pin longevity.

[dmshozer1]

15 minutes ago, vgdvc said:

I just put the lighter springs (red) in the 24c. (Mine came with two sets of springs from the factory,green-heaviest/red-lightest. I believe some of the older units came with three sets). Measures about 14 ounces heavier on the Lyman digital pull scale. Still  feels very good with the same rolling type break. Does seem to strike the same CCI  pistol primers less aggressively. Will most likely keep that in and see how things work out with firing pin longevity.

Hope it works for you,

Just for fun because it is so easy to swap springs, try a 10 yd three target set up.

Go as fast as you can getting good hits with the heavy springs then try the light ones and compare.

I hope you have a timer, If not get one. Guessing is a waste of time with out one!

Let me know the results.

[cecil]

will a standard AR firing pin work in the Taccom carrier ??

[Andyk]

I have an ATI Milsport pcc and also run a hiperfire. Probably 5000 rounds and no issues.  I too read about broken firing pins so I called ATI and asked if I could buy a couple as spares since they don't show them on their parts page.  She sent me two for free.  I carry them to matches just in case.

 

I have 4 Hiperfires 2 in AR, one in the pcc and one in a 15-22 for over 4 years.  Never any issues with any of them.  15-22s have a bit of a rep for broken firing pins too.  Saw one break in the middle of a match with a stock trigger.

Edited March 17, 2019 by Andyk

[CalTeacher]

I have Hiperfire competitions in both of my PCCs.  In at least 20k rounds I’ve had zero broken firing pins with QC10 bolts.

[scffacenter1]

Mine broke firing pins like it was it's job. It's a faxon bolt. I rounded the back of the striking surface to be perfectly round and haven't broke one in 12k rounds.

[lee blackman]

Hyperfire triggers have a significantly faster lock time and a little more ignition force over a stock trigger.  From what I've seen there is a common them with faxon bolt firing pins breaking.  The common problem seems to be folks are replacing broke firing pins with the same brand or quality one so yea they continue to break.  I bought a JP bolt, and never broke a firing pin.  My Spinta bolt never broke one either.  My buddy put a hyperfire behind a faxon and it didn't last a week... He replaced it with a Wilson S7 tool steel, went to become a PCC master, took a state title, all on that single firing pin constantly getting hit by a hyperfire 24 3G trigger.