What Rule Allows A Shooter to stop him/herself?

[Flexmoney]

JT, with yours...you didn't really lose it or displace it. I'd like to think you'd be covered, but I don't want to say that you would...and thus, open a can of worms with somebody just looking for a reshoot. (which, clearly, you were not)

[lcs]

As an RO...we aren't going to always catch that. If/when we do, we need to stop the shooter and order up the reshoot.

As a shooter...it's on me to know this particular rule. I can't count on the RO to catch it, with all the other stuff going on.

As for the plugs + muffs. Hmmm...my thinking is that, if the shooter went to the trouble to wear both, that both count as part of their ear protection.

The sticky points here are that the RO never wants to stop a run unless he/she is 105% sure that something has gone funky. The shooter is the same...we are conditioned to "never stop".

Agree and Disagree.

"As a shooter......" I should know the rules, I could not agree more.

Being an RO/CRO and working a match---I think it is my responsibility to catch "no eyes or ears". Agree, no one is perfect.

I agree we are conditioned to "never stop". Now, I know better.

Excellent subject to bring up. Thanks Flex.

[Nik Habicht]

Gary,

I've got a question too: On stages requiring awkward movement, or possibly prone position, I always use ear plugs under my muffs. I've been telling the RO --- specifically so that if I dislodge the muffs during a run, I can keep going. In other words, I'd prefer not to be stopped --- on those stages......

Any issues with that?

[Gary Stevens]

I guess that it depends how one views the meaning of "hearing protection". Hmmm, sounds like logic some one else used about the word "is", but I digress. If you consider the ear plugs, and the ear muffs as a unit, then it would seem that if the shooter starts with both, then losing part of their "unit" (careful now this is a family forum) would indicate they should be stopped.

On the other hand, the ear plugs alone are hearing protection, and your request would still leave you within the rules.

Off the top of my head I would honor your request, since you informed me of the ear plugs prior to any situation occuring and I would not have to guess about your hearing protection status.

Gee Whiz isn't anything ever simple

Edited May 27, 2008 by Gary Stevens

[Rob Boudrie]

If you'd asked for a reshoot after you finished, it seems that would be a reasonable request, since you weren't stopped during the COF.

The shooter can also aso for a reshoot after firing their last shot, but before responding to gun clear, hammer down holster. They would, technically, be "stopping themselves before completing the stage".

[George Jones]

If you'd asked for a reshoot after you finished, it seems that would be a reasonable request, since you weren't stopped during the COF.

The shooter can also aso for a reshoot after firing their last shot, but before responding to gun clear, hammer down holster. They would, technically, be "stopping themselves before completing the stage".

I would be careful considering to use that particular technique. Although the rule does not state a specific time limit, a case could be made that failing to stop yourself as soon as you realized the problem, and waiting until you finished shooting, was an attempt to gain an advantage (just in case you had a bad run).

The rule is there to protect the shooter's hearing when both he/she and the RO fail to notice the problem as they should. As a safety rule, gaming is not an option IMO.

The first evidence a shooter has that he forgot his hearing protection? ..... a very loud BEEP!

Edited May 27, 2008 by George Jones

[Singlestack]

The first evidence a shooter has that he forgot his hearing protection? ..... a very loud BEEP!

Really.

If the beeps too loud I ain't drawing.

[mactiger]

Good answer, Brian(s) and Nik (and Paul).

Carina, you are entitled to stop yourself if your earplug comes out, or you lose your glasses. The RO should have stopped you in this instance; unfortunately, he didn't. In either case, a reshoot is mandatory, after you have restored your protective equipment. The correct rules are 5.4.3 through US 5.4.5. Intentional removal of eye or hearing protection is grounds for an unsportsmanlike DQ, but accidental loss results in a reshoot. If you'd asked for a reshoot after you finished, it seems that would be a reasonable request, since you weren't stopped during the COF. There is no rule that covers a post COF request, either for or against, BTW. Best practice is to stop when this happens--even though you are hardhe...er, tenacious.

Troy

I've got one for you Troy... I started a COF and one of muffs was not seated properly (I have big ears ) It looked as if they were on properly, felt like it too, but the first shot gave me a ringer. I shot two targets before I gave up and USCed. I told the RO my hearing protection wasn't seated properly and I was getting blasted. I asked for a reshoot and was granted one. (local match not USPSA sanctioned event) would I be entitled to a reshoot if it appeared my hearing protection was in place? I did stop after two, all As, but it could be a gamer that throw a bad shot. Regardless, I'm not going to bang away with an open without properly secured hearing protection. Is there criteria for the call? Obviously the guy can't shoot the whole COF and then bitch about hearing protection. I would think it would have to be a common sense thing with the RO and possibly the RM. The guy shoots a couple of shots and you see him flinching... he stops and requests a reshoot.... How would you handle it Troy? Kyle?

I'd give you the reshoot.

Troy

[mactiger]

I guess that it depends how one views the meaning of "hearing protection". Hmmm, sounds like logic some one else used about the word "is", but I digress. If you consider the ear plugs, and the ear muffs as a unit, then it would seem that if the shooter starts with both, then losing part of their "unit" (careful now this is a family forum) would indicate they should be stopped.

On the other hand, the ear plugs alone are hearing protection, and your request would still leave you within the rules.

Off the top of my head I would honor your request, since you informed me of the ear plugs prior to any situation occuring and I would not have to guess about your hearing protection status.

Gee Whiz isn't anything ever simple

Just to add a bit more to your senil...,er, confusion

A couple of years ago, a competitor at Nationals asked for a reshoot after completing the course, stating that he always used plugs and muffs, and had not placed his muffs on his head prior to coming to the line (note that he didn't have one on and one off, nor did they fall off--he wasn't wearing them). He did have plugs in his ears, as noted by the RO. The RO said no reshoot, the CRO said no reshoot, and the RM said, you guessed it: no reshoot. The reason? Hearing protection was in place and we can't read your mind. For the other examples where one muff is not in place, or they fall off, I'd consider the double hearing protection a "unit" and most likely issue the reshoot. Or, in Nick's case, if he told me about it, I'd keep my mouth shut.

As stated previously, judicious application of common sense will go a long way in situations like this.

Troy

[JThompson]

Thanks guys...

JT

[shred]

I've been started a few times with my ears not on my ears. I've been double-plugged the only time's it's happened that I didn't catch it before the beep, but from asking the RO's, pretty much they didn't catch it either... Once the RO said "I saw you had plugs in, so I started you", but geez.. if the guy has muffs on his head, maybe he wants to use them and a little reminder, while not required, might be appropriate? Perhaps the visible 'plugs' are hearing aids instead of sound-blocking devices?