When you're working on a new load...

[vnboileau]

And trying different combinations of powder, bullet, oal, etc

 

How many and what size groups are you shooting to determine which load is better?

 

I'm loading 9mm minor, and I've settled on a powder I like.  But now I have five or six bullets I'd like to try out.  Just wondering how extensively I need to shoot each to get a sense of which is more accurate in a particular gun.

[Doublehelix]

I tend to work up loads with 3-6 different powder charge weights for each powder and/or bullet combination, and once I get close to the load I need, I may or may not go back and adjust the COAL depending on the results. I chronograph every load which gives me some great information.

 

Normally, I start with the longest COAL that I know works reliably in my gun or guns. If I need to adjust, it is always to go slightly shorter if I need to reduce the charge weight slightly in the case of excessive pressure signs.

 

I tend to make 20-25 of each load to chronograph.

 

I also isolate the spent brass for each load, and do some quick visual inspections for pressure signs, but I save each set of brass in individual ziplock baggies to take home for more careful inspection under my magnifying light.

 

When I am testing, I always shoot at a target to get a "feel" for the accuracy, but once I get close and narrow things down to 1 or 2 loads that I know are awesome, I will then make about 50 of each, and really focus on the bullseye to confirm accuracy.

[Hi-Power Jack]

48 minutes ago, vnboileau said:

 

How many and what size groups are you shooting to determine which load is better?

 

 I've settled on a powder,  but I have five or six bullets I'd like to try out.   how extensively I need to shoot each to get a sense of which is more accurate in a particular gun.

 

When I try a powder and different bullets for USPSA (PF 125+), I load each bullet to near max of

The Plunk Test and load 5 of each powder weight, trying to get close to PF 128 - 134.

 

Then I fire the five rounds, thru the chrono, into a target at 20 yards - measure velocity, feeding,

and accuracy.  Eliminate rounds that don't feed properly or are not in my PF range.

 

Narrow down the powder charge to that 128 - 134 PF range, and test ten rounds as above.

 

Later, I'll play with the OAL - see if a slightly shorter OAL might be more accurate.

 

I would  NEVER  subject myself to the rigors of testing 5-6 different bullets at the same time.

 

Two, or possibly three at the most, but I'd stick with proven winners.   Determine which weight

you prefer (e.g. 147 grains) and try 2-3 different brands.  Actually, I usually buy at least 1,000

of a single bullet, and shoot it until it's gone - so it's much more usual for me to test one powder

and one bullet at a time - vary the amount of powder and OAL, only    

 

Take it one step at a time - don't overload it - unless you have a LOT of Time and interest -

it can make for a very interesting couple days at the range.

 

Some people bring their reloading stuff with them to the range, and actually load all the

various permutations right there, narrowing it down and reloading at the same time - that

would be Really Fun, if you had portable equipment and the time.

 

What size groups ?   Depends on how much time I had.  As a quick start, I'd be looking to

be at least as tight as the ammo I've been using - factory or whatever.   Eventually, I'd

keep trying different powders, bullets and OAL's until I found a load that is better than

my ability to shoot    

 

I found one really quickly with my TruBor and have a load that shoots 3" at 50 yards -

which is Way Better than I can shoot     

[Steve RA]

Do you shoot Open minor ???

[Hi-Power Jack]

37 minutes ago, Steve RA said:

Do you shoot Open minor ???

 

I shoot Open Major, but the question was about 9mm Minor ....   

[Steve RA]

Fine, just wondered why you were testing minor loads.  Especially since you mentioned finding one quickly with your TruBor.

[Dr. Phil]

I start with the bullet. I don't bother with 115gr and rarely shoot 124 or 125gr. I normally shoot 135gr coated bullets (autos) and 147 - 155gr in the revos. I start at the minimum charge and chrono 10 rounds at a time till I get to 125ish. I shoot S.C. and falling steel so PF is not a major concern for me.

When I get where I want to be I try seating depth and such to test for accuracy. If the accuracy doesn't show to be what I'm looking for, I will try different bullets. I have several brands to test from.

FWIW, in my 929 I found a load at about 123PF that shoots great but the accuracy isn't quite there. I tried 2 other 9mm bullets (.356 dia.) and it was still below par. Then I tried some 147 Blue Bullets in .358 diameter. They shoot great! Like 1 spot on a 20 yd plate! So, I use them for S.C. matches and shoot the other stuff for practice...

 

I have a guy that makes my powder coated bullets for $50/K. Can't beat that. He is doing a 1K test batch at .357 dia. (My .38s like that size a lot.) We will see how the 929 likes them.

[GunBugBit]

I am not picky beyond whether the gun functions reliably, PF is met, and it feels good to shoot.  Action shooting accuracy is a lot more about myself and my sights being dialed in than the load.

[Beef15]

I load ten of each charge, bullet, whatever the variable is, and shoot a target at 25yds, with a chrono at 15'. 

 

Anything under 4" and over PF is good enough, obviously I go with the tighest. I usually try to keep minor under 135pf. If a load is cheaper for some reason I may forgo a little accuracy.

Edited April 20, 2018 by Beef15

[StuckinMS]

59 minutes ago, Beef15 said:

I load ten of each charge, bullet, whatever the variable is, and shoot a target at 25yds, with a chrono at 15'. 

 

Anything under 4" and over PF is good enough, obviously I go with the tighest. I usually try to keep minor under 135pf. If a load is cheaper for some reason I may forgo a little accuracy.

Why chrono at 15 instead of 10' like they are set at matches?

[Beef15]

32 minutes ago, StuckinMS said:

Why chrono at 15 instead of 10' like they are set at matches?

Convenience, my range has every five yards marked. And rather be high by a few fps on match day than low.

[Bench]

8 hours ago, Doublehelix said:

When I am testing, I always shoot at a target to get a "feel" for the accuracy, but once I get close and narrow things down to 1 or 2 loads that I know are awesome, I will then make about 50 of each, and really focus on the bullseye to confirm accuracy.

...with bench rest and bags?

[Bench]

3 hours ago, Dr. Phil said:

I have a guy that makes my powder coated bullets for $50/K. Can't beat that. He is doing a 1K test batch at .357 dia. (My .38s like that size a lot.) We will see how the 929 likes them.

auuuuuuh.......do you mind/"this guy" sharing?

[Hi-Power Jack]

5 hours ago, Steve RA said:

Fine, just wondered why you were testing minor loads.  Especially since you mentioned finding one quickly with your TruBor.

I also shoot Limited Minor, with a BHP     

[Dr. Phil]

57 minutes ago, Bench said:

auuuuuuh.......do you mind/"this guy" sharing?

Don't know if he is ready for the "big stage" so to speak.

[vnboileau]

On 4/20/2018 at 10:04 AM, Hi-Power Jack said:

When I try a powder and different bullets for USPSA (PF 125+), I load each bullet to near max of

The Plunk Test and load 5 of each powder weight, trying to get close to PF 128 - 134.

 

Then I fire the five rounds, thru the chrono, into a target at 20 yards - measure velocity, feeding,

and accuracy.  Eliminate rounds that don't feed properly or are not in my PF range.

 

Narrow down the powder charge to that 128 - 134 PF range, and test ten rounds as above.

 

Later, I'll play with the OAL - see if a slightly shorter OAL might be more accurate.

 

I would  NEVER  subject myself to the rigors of testing 5-6 different bullets at the same time.

 

 

 

Yeah, I bit off more than I could chew starting with six bullets.

 

I made sure I had a working oal with each first, that they would all pass the plunk test in my Shadow barrels.  Then I ran a few rounds at a time through a chrono to get approx the same velocity from each bullet.  These were 124/125gr bullets at ~1050fps., or 130 pf.

 

I loaded enough to shoot three, ten round groups with each bullet.  That gave me two bullets that shot the best groups.  Both were the conical bullets FWIW.

 

One of the two, the oal was as short as I'd want to go.  The other I could load a little shorter.  And I could play with the powder charge a little.

 

I guess that would be the next step?  Load some at say, 1050 and 1080 and shoot groups again?

 

Does three groups each sound like enough for each load?

[Hi-Power Jack]

2 hours ago, vnboileau said:

 

Does three groups each sound like enough for each load?

 

I just shoot one 15 round group - drop the 2-3 flyers, and see

how the other dozen shots were for accuracy     

[StuckinMS]

1 hour ago, Hi-Power Jack said:

 

I just shoot one 15 round group - drop the 2-3 flyers, and see

how the other dozen shots were for accuracy     

I am with you. We are exactly playing rocket science.  I would rather find a decent load and spend my time practicing than spending all my time trying to make a load to shoot a sniper rifle group out of my pistol.

[Doublehelix]

On 4/20/2018 at 7:28 PM, Bench said:

...with bench rest and bags?

 

No. I only use my bench rest to sight in the gun. Once that has been completed, I normally shoot off-hand. That is my technique, but I know a lot of guys that do test their different reloads from a rest to see which load is most accurate.

 

For me, I want to see which load is most accurate **in my hand** rather than from a rest. I am not saying that is the best method, but it is the method that *I* prefer. You will have to see what works best for you of course.

[Bench]

1 hour ago, Doublehelix said:

 

No. I only use my bench rest to sight in the gun. Once that has been completed, I normally shoot off-hand. That is my technique, but I know a lot of guys that do test their different reloads from a rest to see which load is most accurate.

 

For me, I want to see which load is most accurate **in my hand** rather than from a rest. I am not saying that is the best method, but it is the method that *I* prefer. You will have to see what works best for you of course.

Since I'm new to reloading and beginning to gear up for USPSA recently I've been using the bench for initial 'feel' for loads and then once I'm confident in that load and that they aren't flying I'll return to off hand for the majority of my range work. Thanks

[Hi-Power Jack]

7 hours ago, Doublehelix said:

 

 I use my bench rest to sight in the gun. Once that has been completed, I normally shoot off-hand.

 

I do the exact opposite.    

 

I use the bench rest to determine the accuracy of that load in my gun and get it

roughly sighted in.

 

Then, I stand up and finish the sighting in process, because that's the way I'll

shoot matches      

[Bench]

23 minutes ago, Hi-Power Jack said:

 

I do the exact opposite.    

 

I use the bench rest to determine the accuracy of that load in my gun and get it

roughly sighted in.

 

Then, I stand up and finish the sighting in process, because that's the way I'll

shoot matches      

There's no right way or a wrong way...just the one that works for you and the one you trust...

[sean91285]

I start with ten and look to see if there is any pressure signs with loading down i normally have cycling issues not pressure problems. once i know what loads are safe I will load 50 of each. I like to crono, shoot for groups and test different springs.