Quickload

[sv38supershooter]

i wonder if anyone who owns a quickload program could run my load for pressure

it is 9 mm major load

7.2 gr n340 ,124 montana gold jhp,winchester small pistol primers.and 1.175oal

[rtr]

While we're at it I'd love to hear about my load.

7.7gr 3N37, 1.160 OAL, Federal SRP, 124gr Montana Gold JHP

[TRG65]

7.2 vv n340

1.175 OAL

inputing primer type isn't available in my version, I don't know if newer allow or not

montana gold is not a bullet option, I used a hornady xtp 124

over 70,000 psi

with a speer gold dot 124

over 67,000

7.7 vv 3n37

1.160

using the speer 124

just shy of 60,000

[rtr]

Thanks Seth.

[TRG65]

your welcome

[Harmon]

7.2 vv n340

1.175 OAL

inputing primer type isn't available in my version, I don't know if newer allow or not

montana gold is not a bullet option, I used a hornady xtp 124

over 70,000 psi!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

sweet JESUS!! thats alot of pressure!!!.

can you tell me what 7.5 grains of Power pistol and 124XTP does in a 38 super loaded to 1.250?? its a major load, but i doubt it exceeds 45Kpsi

[TRG65]

just shy of 35

you guys really need to think about investing in a copy of QL if you play with powder/cartridge combinations that are out there.

I bought mine after I stuck the bolt on my custom rem 700 308.

[TRG65]

In fact here is the link

http://www.neconos.com/shop/index.php?shop=1&cat=2

[Harmon]

thanks,

running half the pressure of a major 9 is awesome

thats why my super brass seems to last forever, thanks

[movaughn]

I concur with you, I can see no reason to try and push 9mm into major when there are other calibers that are easier on the gun, brass, etc.

[MoNsTeR]

Quickload? Bah. It's a model (a poor one at that), not a measurement. 70kpsi is literally twice SAAMI max for 9 luger; we would be blowing up guns left and right.

[sv38supershooter]

Quickload? Bah.  It's a model (a poor one at that), not a measurement.  70kpsi is literally twice SAAMI max for 9 luger; we would be blowing up guns left and right.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I HAVE NO SIGNS OF PRESSURE WITH THIS LOAD

I CANNOT BELEIVE 70000PSI

PRIMERS ARE PERFECT NO SIGNS OF PROBLEMS

[TRG65]

sv

take it for what its worth, you started this thread by asking, no need to shout.

I like QL. I understand the principle behind the program, but having worked across the hall from the reaction engineers in a previous job, I'm sure the program is simplified. That said however, my observations usually agree with what QL tells me.

For S&G I went and ran some of the number that were posted in the 9mm major data thread. In particular, a load by Little Bill of 8.1 TB at 1.150. I used a Spr HP GD to sim (it usually gives the lowest pressures) and it came out at 61900+. The reason I picked that load was he talked about his primers being very flat.

Different guns respond differently to pressure, apparently you have a gun that takes pressure well.

Also, as much issue has I've had with VV's reloading data, their max loads of 340 are 5.1, 5.9, and 5.1 depending on bullet type. QL shows 35000 with the 124 SP GD at 5.6 using your OAL, and a case capacity used of 91% You asked about 7.2.

Please introduce your self if we ever shoot together. I do believe QL. I want to be sure my wife and I are standing back.

Seth Ritzman

[smokshwn]

+1 with Monster.

There is something wrong with the model for 9mm. First there IS not a correct bullet choice which means right off the bat we are starting to stack tolerances etc.

I am not arguing that the 9mm doesn't have more pressure but at loads with 65-70 k psi we would certainly be seeing more guns in pieces. However the fact is almost everyone shooting 9mm in Open is running these same loads and having very good experience with them.

The solution is for someone with a pressure barrel to do some work on these loads and lets get some objective qualitative data rather than someone's pared down software model.

Pat where are you on this?

Take care, Craig

[Patrick Sweeney]

Please refine the question. Where am I on shooting 9mm Major? Or where am I on getting a test lab with a pressure barrel to test ammo? Or where I've been for the last few days?

[Alan Meek]

Patrick,

Where have you been and where are you going ?

Sorry Patrick, but someone had to do it.

Alan

[.40AET]

The solution is for someone with a pressure barrel to do some work on these loads and lets get some objective qualitative data rather than someone's pared down software model.

I contacted Western Powders Test Lab and they only test for manufacturers. If I was carrying 5 million in insurance they would be happy to test my 9-Major load. I had my 15 bullets all packed up and ready to go.

White Laboratories will do it for $475 (My budget can't bear that) They will also run tests on their older equipment.

[shred]

Years ago, IIRC, Jeff Maass sent some super and 9x21 loads to a pressure testing house and got back some numbers in the .223 pressure range.

[XRe]

So, everyone who's shooting 9 Major or is thinking about it, that wants to *really* know the pressures they're making, send Alan some cash and some sample loads Of course, while a bit lower, Major .38 Super loads aren't exactly SAAMI spec, IIRC...

[Alan Meek]

The way I understand chamber pressure and its relation to the variables.

Pressure is affected by differences in chamber dimensions. Different brands of powder have effect. Temp has an effect. Bullet selection has an effect. Seating depth has an effect. Consistency of powder has an effect. Crimp has an effect. Barrel has an effect. I am sure that I have left out a lot of variables that will effect the chamber pressure. So tools like Quick load will provide a ballpark, and SAAMI provides a number for the Manufacturers. Unless you can test your specific loads no one can say for sure the chamber pressure generated. I beleive that this is true for all calibers. As far as Glock recommending factory ammo only, If I remember correctly all firearms Manufacturers recommend factory produced ammo. This is probably due to the fact that Ammo manufacturers follow SAAMI guide lines in producing loads. This is done for liability protection the way I understand it.

My 2 grains on the subject.

Alan

[.40AET]

So, everyone who's shooting 9 Major or is thinking about it, that wants to *really* know the pressures they're making

I'm really not concerned about the pressures. I worked up all of my loads slowly watching the primers for pressure signs. All of the 124g loads will easily make 170-173pf without any pressure signs. I've seen plenty of smashed primers in .38super loads and mine are no where near that kind of over pressure.

I'm interested in the pressure testing only because one shooter on the forum has taken the quickload information and decided that the 9major is now unsafe. In addition to deciding that it's unsafe, is warning shooters about the dangers of the cartridge. There is no scientific evidence to support these statements. I'd like to test some loads to make the measured pressures available to other shooters.

[Alan Meek]

.40AET, I agree completly.

What I see on the whole Major 9 subject is the sky is falling mentality from the doubting thomases. Let me regenerate my way back machine and view the not so distant history. Back in the 80s there was a few top shooters that were experimenting with a new cartridge. Not really a new cartridge bu one that was not previously in wide use in USPSA/IPSC. This was in the day day of 1911 singlestacks and the only cartridge used was the .45 ACP. All of teh naysayers back in the 80s would mention excessive high pressure, The use of this cartridge would destroy the gun. It was unsafe to shoot and would endanger people around them. Now there were some incidents where the case would fail, but that has also happened in various other cartridges, not just in our sport. So over time knowledge reigned supreme and the USPSA/IPSC community was able to figure out how to make this cartridge work. This cartridge that was so dangerous back in the 80s is now the accepted standard (or its variants) as the USPSA/IPSC Open Division cartridge. Can you say .38 Super.

Yes we are at an infancy while we work on sorting out any issues with the 9mm as a cartridge loaded to make the major pf. But most of the perceived issues have been laid to rest. So for anybody that has any doubts as to the feasibility of the cartridge. Come to VA or find myself or any other BE members that are running a Major 9 and look closely at the inner working of our efforts.

Incidently, this next piece will surely upset a few, Both of my Major 9 guns are built with standard ramped barrels. Before anyone goes off half crazy and wigs out. I did this like I have done all of my competition guns. Fortunately back in the 80s when I was looking at putting together my first .38 Super open gun I had the privilege of getting to know Irv, Barbara and IrvIII Stone. While we were out deer hunting in the New York Mountains of CA I had an opportunity to talk at length with Irv (Sr) about what else guns and barrels. Irv explained to me at that time that it was not necessary to use a ramped barrel as long as the barrel is fit and timed correctly. So all of my guns with the exception of my glock are fitted with Bar-Sto Barrels, done by Irv (Sr) and Irv III. I have never experienced any pressure related issues with any gun/barrel combination. These include .38 Super, .40 and now 9mm barrels. All in open guns making major. I was even shooting .40 when there was no available data and learning as we went then to.

Is this a definitive answer to the pressure issue, no. but it is a real time use, and that is a failry good indicator of whether or not the issues preceived hold water or not.

Alan

ps to Irv III, You have definitely carried on in your dad shoes, While I can not thank him for all he gave to us, accept my thanks to you for both you and him. AEM