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53 minutes ago, TRPOperator said:

After adjusting the slider I loaded a couple hundred rounds and have zero issues with the primer slide bar sticking and only got one primer that was sideways. I will fine tune a bit more and see if I can eliminate that completely. Should have my parts next week to get going with the auto drive I hope. 

 

Also check the hole in the primer loading slider bar (or whatever it's called, the silver sliding bar that shuttles the primers from the tube over to the shell plate).  Run your finger across the primer hole in the bar and see if you can feel any burrs on it, if so use something with very fine grit to gently smooth that out.  Primers "catching" on the lip of that hole can cause them to flip.  Also make sure there isn't grease or gunk down in the channel that the slider slides in, if it get's slowed down in it's movement due to this it can also cause problems.

 

ADMINS: Would it make sense to split out a separate "Mark 7 Evoluotion Troubleshooting" thread from this discussion, as it's already at 55 pages of mostly blather, and will be difficult for the technical content to provide value to new Evo press owners if these posts are left buried in the middle of all this?  Just a suggestion.

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7 hours ago, Tanfastic said:

 

ADMINS: Would it make sense to split out a separate "Mark 7 Evoluotion Troubleshooting" thread from this discussion, as it's already at 55 pages of mostly blather, and will be difficult for the technical content to provide value to new Evo press owners if these posts are left buried in the middle of all this?  Just a suggestion.

 

Good idea.  (And call it "Evolution"? 😂 )

 

Edited by teros135

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Checked the bolt and everything else. Tight and everything moves freely. I started setting up my powder charge and noticed that when setting the powder measure die height in order to have the drum rotate and lift the upper assembly, that it would get stuck as it rotates to the up position even though it has not reached the complete "dump" position. I guess as long as I can get the desired charge it should be OK?

 

YeCohX.jpg

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4 minutes ago, LowBoost said:

Checked the bolt and everything else. Tight and everything moves freely. I started setting up my powder charge and noticed that when setting the powder measure die height in order to have the drum rotate and lift the upper assembly, that it would get stuck as it rotates to the up position even though it has not reached the complete "dump" position. I guess as long as I can get the desired charge it should be OK?

 

YeCohX.jpg

 

No, definitely NOT ok, the drum needs to rotate fully up.

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Well..I have run out of ideas on how to get it to work without binding in the up position. I can get it to rotate all the way up, but it will stay there and not come back down.

 

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4 minutes ago, LowBoost said:

Well..I have run out of ideas on how to get it to work without binding in the up position. I can get it to rotate all the way up, but it will stay there and not come back down.

 

 

So if you just manually flip the rod up to the top with your finger, it stays there and gets stuck and doesn't come back down?

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1 hour ago, LowBoost said:

Well..I have run out of ideas on how to get it to work without binding in the up position. I can get it to rotate all the way up, but it will stay there and not come back down.

 

 

I had the same issue and the powder drop was crushing cases because it would not go up any further even tho it had more travel. 

 

I had to send the funnel back and they told me there was nothing I could of done to fix the issue. 

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I removed the primer tube to make it easier to rotate the powder assembly. I removed the two screws holding down the assembly to the die and adjusted it as much as I could.

It is "almost" there, but at this point it is adding some additional flare to the brass. 

 

t2NEMW.jpg

Edited by LowBoost

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25 minutes ago, LowBoost said:

I removed the primer tube to make it easier to rotate the powder assembly. I removed the two screws holding down the assembly to the die and adjusted it as much as I could.

It is "almost" there, but at this point it is adding some additional flare to the brass. 

 

t2NEMW.jpg

 

Do you have the MK7 powder funnel in the powder measure, and NOT the Mr Bullet Feeder flare funnel?

Edited by Tanfastic

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Yes, I have the MK7 funnel. I am not using the Mr. Bullet Feeder funnel at all. (Station 5 using a Redding Premium Expander Die)

I kept trying slowly until I managed to get it go all the way up, but I have more flare than what it should. Not a huge deal as the bullet is not tipping and any flare will be taken care of by the crimp die.

 

I may give it another try tomorrow to see if I can really nail it down. Just tired after 5 hours of fiddling with it Today.

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Do you have the charge screw turned all the way in, or nearly all the way?  Mine did pretty much the same thing until I started to screw it out a bit, then it rotated smoothly.  I'm loading 10.4 gr of AA7, so I don't know how far it has to be screwed in for, say, 3.1 gr of Titegroup.  That'll come later.

 

Actually, what I've done is to use my Dillon measure, with a Uniquetek micrometer adjustment and dual return springs instead of the Dillon "fail safe" rod.  Works like a charm up to the Evo's max speed of 2500.  The Evo measure is sitting to the side until they figure it out (and put a micrometer or marked dial on it).  I've heard the Hornady rotary measure also works pretty well.  

 

 

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Actually, it is near all the way in. Maybe a 1/4 turn out. I will try that tomorrow although it is not sticking right now. The additional flare is what bothers me now.

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I'm gonna bet that's it.  Back that sucker out some.  When it moves freely, you'll also lose the extra flare, because you're putting less force on the case.  

 

Edited by teros135

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12 hours ago, Tanfastic said:

ADMINS: Would it make sense to split out a separate "Mark 7 Evoluotion Troubleshooting" thread from this discussion, as it's already at 55 pages of mostly blather, and will be difficult for the technical content to provide value to new Evo press owners if these posts are left buried in the middle of all this?  Just a suggestion.

 

I agree. My Evo (manual version) just arrived and I have already found myself searching through this thread more than a few times for posts I remember reading about.

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6 hours ago, SnowinOnRaton said:

 

I agree. My Evo (manual version) just arrived and I have already found myself searching through this thread more than a few times for posts I remember reading about.

#2. I spent an hour looking for a post the other evening. 

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13 hours ago, LowBoost said:

Actually, it is near all the way in. Maybe a 1/4 turn out. I will try that tomorrow although it is not sticking right now. The additional flare is what bothers me now.

 

You should have NO additional flare created by the powder die, if you do it's adjusted too far down with too much pressure on the case.  Definitely check what was mentioned about about the adjustment screw being in too far, I had the same issue last summer when messing with it and couldn't figure out why it wouldn't move smoothly.  I'm running about as low of a charge as anyone probably is, 3.1gr, and the measure works fine with the adjuster screwed out just far enough to produce that load.

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Regarding the powder drop accuracy discussion and comments on powder variation vs speed. Went and ran some tests. In the data below:

"Manual" = machine isn't running, with the tool head in the up position, I placed a case under the powder funnel, pushed the powder funnel up until the powder funnel hits the top of the powder die, then I manually actuated the rotary arm with my other hand.

"1k RPH BD:2" = machine set to 1000 rph and bottom dwell setting of 2

"1.9k RPH BD:2" = machine set to 1900 rph and bottom dwell setting of 2

 

The shell plate was completely empty except for one case under the powder station. I used the same case for each measurement. I also visually watched the powder arm fully rotate each time.

 

I only have a dillon and hornady scale, neither are great. Dillon always measured a bit heavier than the hornady. 

I'm running VVN340 powder in 9mm cases.

 

"MAX" numbers refer to the full data set for the particular speed from both scales.

 

pwdrdrop.thumb.jpg.ed8080a0264da869c2da055cf9742a21.jpg

 

Seems the drop is indeed speed dependent. I'm getting +- 0.1 to 0.15gr depending on speed, which scale you pick, and if you pick the compilation of both scales for a run (probably not fair). A 4.42% to 6.76% variation. I'd be happy with sub 5%. So for any given speed, the drop looks decent. The problem comes in for the "overall" analysis. Up to a 0.5gr spread or 11.39% variation. 

 

Usually when I start the press up, I run at the lowest speeds single cycle while filling the shell plate, making sure every station is working correctly. Then I let it run automated at the lowest speed for ~20 rounds to watch the overall press. If everything looks fine I start speeding it up. Looks like a great way to have an inconsistent load.

 

 

Edited by Smithcity

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On 1/12/2019 at 9:04 PM, Smithcity said:

Regarding the powder drop accuracy discussion and comments on powder variation vs speed. Went and ran some tests. In the data below:

"Manual" = machine isn't running, with the tool head in the up position, I placed a case under the powder funnel, pushed the powder funnel up until the powder funnel hits the top of the powder die, then I manually actuated the rotary arm with my other hand.

"1k RPH BD:2" = machine set to 1000 rph and bottom dwell setting of 2

"1.9k RPH BD:2" = machine set to 1900 rph and bottom dwell setting of 2

 

The shell plate was completely empty except for one case under the powder station. I used the same case for each measurement. I also visually watched the powder arm fully rotate each time.

 

I only have a dillon and hornady scale, neither are great. Dillon always measured a bit heavier than the hornady. 

I'm running VVN340 powder in 9mm cases.

 

"MAX" numbers refer to the full data set for the particular speed from both scales.

 

pwdrdrop.thumb.jpg.ed8080a0264da869c2da055cf9742a21.jpg

 

Seems the drop is indeed speed dependent. I'm getting +- 0.1 to 0.15gr depending on speed, which scale you pick, and if you pick the compilation of both scales for a run (probably not fair). A 4.42% to 6.76% variation. I'd be happy with sub 5%. So for any given speed, the drop looks decent. The problem comes in for the "overall" analysis. Up to a 0.5gr spread or 11.39% variation. 

 

Usually when I start the press up, I run at the lowest speeds single cycle while filling the shell plate, making sure every station is working correctly. Then I let it run automated at the lowest speed for ~20 rounds to watch the overall press. If everything looks fine I start speeding it up. Looks like a great way to have an inconsistent load.

 

 

 

Thanks for doing this. It was good to see what other folks are getting. I’m running the manual Evo and I’m having a little trouble getting consistent drops. I’m loading 9mm. I’m testing with Hodgsdon CFE-Pistol aiming for 5.5 gr. Using 20 drops I’m getting anywhere from 5.29 to 5.78 on the extreme ends. Typical charge spread seems to be 5.4 to 5.6. Is 2 tenths considered fine for range ammo? What kind of accuracy do you competition shooters find acceptable? 

 

I’m being super consistent with my lever pulls. Made sure the powder arm is going through the full range of motion. I ran some tests with my Redding 10x and over 20 drops I’m getting 5.46 to 5.58 with 90% of those within .05 of my target 5.5. The Redding is a beast!  Wish I could modify it to actuate and just use it. I will say once Mark 7 improves consistency on these powder measures they will really have something special. The build quality and smoothness of this powder drop is amazing. The press itself is simply stunning. I’ve got everything else running flawless. Once I get the powder measure consistency dialed in I’ll be over the moon. I’m gonna try some tests tomorrow with Alliant Power Pistol but seeing as it’s also a flake powder and looks pretty much identical to the CFE-Pistol I’m guessing the results won’t be any different. Also, I don’t have a great scale. I’m using the cheapo WAOAW digital scale but double checking every charge with my RCBS 10-10 beam scale. 

 

Is anyone one here getting really accurate drops with this powder measure? If so, what powder and charge size are you using?

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2 minutes ago, SnowinOnRaton said:

 

Thanks for doing this. It was good to see what other folks are getting. I’m running the manual Evo and I’m having a little trouble getting consistent drops. I’m loading 9mm. I’m testing with Hodgsdon CFE-Pistol aiming for 5.5 gr. Using 20 drops I’m getting anywhere from 5.29 to 5.78 on the extreme ends. Typical charge spread seems to be 5.4 to 5.6. Is 2 tenths considered fine for range ammo? What kind of accuracy do you competition shooters find acceptable? 

 

I’m being super consistent with my lever pulls. Made sure the powder arm is going through the full range of motion. I ran some tests with my Redding 10x and over 20 drops I’m getting 5.46 to 5.58 with 90% of those within .05 of my target 5.5. The Redding is a beast!  Wish I could modify it to actuate and just use it. I will say once Mark 7 improves consistency on these powder measures they will really have something special. The build quality and smoothness of this powder drop is amazing. The press itself is simply stunning. I’ve got everything else running flawless. Once I get the powder measure consistency dialed in I’ll be over the moon. I’m gonna try some tests tomorrow with Alliant Power Pistol but seeing as it’s also a flake powder and looks pretty much identical to the CFE-Pistol I’m guessing the results won’t be any different. Also, I don’t have a great scale. I’m using the cheapo WAOAW digital scale but double checking every charge with my RCBS 10-10 beam scale. 

 

Is anyone one here getting really accurate drops with this powder measure? If so, what powder and charge size are you using?

Good data point. Its possible I'm "one of the few" with a powder drop that is speed dependent. However, if this is a more common item with the drop, I have no idea how you manually driven Evo users could possibly have good consistent powder drops. Over an hour loading session I find it hard to believe any human will maintain the same rate / force of pull. As a result, I don't know how you could do much better than a 0.4-0.5 spread. Obviously the spread is going to change based on the type of powder. I would prefer any piece of equipment not dictate what type of loading ingredients are being used.

 

I agree, the machine is awesome. Now that I have most of the kinks worked out I'm really enjoying it. Powder drop could still use some attention. 

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16 minutes ago, Smithcity said:

.... Over an hour loading session I find it hard to believe any human will maintain the same rate / force of pull. As a result, I don't know how you could do much better than a 0.4-0.5 spread....

 

Agreed. This seems to be what I’m experiencing and from what I’ve read it’s a common issue. I’m going to make sure I go through all of their trouble shooting tips in the PDF from the Mark 7 forum. At this point though I think the only one I haven’t tried is the cross hatching scratches on the face of the plunger (part number 201-1167 in the exploded parts doc) with sand paper. Also forgot to mention I’m using the Dramworx Glass hopper so I’m sure it’s not a static issue. 

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On my upgraded automated powder dispenser on a Revolution most drops are right on the money with an extreme spread of occasional +/- 0.1 grain (mostly on the high side). I have not seen a measurement difference  running it at 2K, 2.5K or 3K  rounds per hour settings. That is with a setting of 4.8 grains of N320 on a .40 S&W. I do make the  power factor with 4.7 so not worried.

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Well the feedback from MK7 is that the inconsistency is from powder "splashing" back up into chamber during the dump because of the speed of rotation.  They're working on a revised linkage that creates a J-shaped rotation with a slower rotation at the bottom, which should help with that.  Because of the way the linkage works, you can't really do much as far as how fast or slow you pull the handle, other than making sure you give it a good dwell at the top and bottom to let the powder fully fill and empty, you can't really change the rotation speed of the drum based upon how you're pulling the handle.  I've set a top and bottom dwell time of 2 on the auto drive to do this automatically, and it seems to be doing ok, I'm not seeing huge spreads but about 0.2 gr running at 1600rph.  So bottom line, if you have a manual Evo don't beat yourself up about it being a problem of how consistently you're pulling the handle, it isn't.  The advantage of the auto drive is you can get it to be more consistent by tuning for the amount of splash back you get at a given rph since the speed is exactly the same each time.  Hopefully the new parts will eliminate most of the splash back, and then it won't really matter as much.  I'd like to see 0.1 gr spread ideally, I'd never give it a 2nd thought at that level.  I think most scales are no better than 0.1 gr anyway.

 

P.S. - This also means that testing the powder drop of the MK7 measure by manually actuating the drum rotation is completely useless, you have to test it at the speed that you're loading with a case in the station and shell plate moving at normal speed. 

Edited by Tanfastic

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Tanfastic - Your post is a big relief. I have not posted in the last couple of days doing a lot of set-up and testing. Coincidentally, I ended up increasing the loading speed to 1900rph as I feel it is the best compromise. I also ended up with a top and bottom dwell of 2 to make sure the powder accommodates at both ends of the stroke.

 

Not getting the consistent results I would prefer, but it is much better than it was initially.

 

I agree with you that a 0.1 spread would be ideal (As that is what I was used to). Other than that, I am very happy with the Evo Pro.

Edited by LowBoost

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9 hours ago, Tanfastic said:

Well the feedback from MK7 is that the inconsistency is from powder "splashing" back up into chamber during the dump because of the speed of rotation.  They're working on a revised linkage that creates a J-shaped rotation with a slower rotation at the bottom, which should help with that.  Because of the way the linkage works, you can't really do much as far as how fast or slow you pull the handle, other than making sure you give it a good dwell at the top and bottom to let the powder fully fill and empty, you can't really change the rotation speed of the drum based upon how you're pulling the handle.  I've set a top and bottom dwell time of 2 on the auto drive to do this automatically, and it seems to be doing ok, I'm not seeing huge spreads but about 0.2 gr running at 1600rph.  So bottom line, if you have a manual Evo don't beat yourself up about it being a problem of how consistently you're pulling the handle, it isn't.  The advantage of the auto drive is you can get it to be more consistent by tuning for the amount of splash back you get at a given rph since the speed is exactly the same each time.  Hopefully the new parts will eliminate most of the splash back, and then it won't really matter as much.  I'd like to see 0.1 gr spread ideally, I'd never give it a 2nd thought at that level.  I think most scales are no better than 0.1 gr anyway.

 

P.S. - This also means that testing the powder drop of the MK7 measure by manually actuating the drum rotation is completely useless, you have to test it at the speed that you're loading with a case in the station and shell plate moving at normal speed. 

 

Thanks for this info. I can stop trying to trouble shoot this on my own for now. I’ll give them a call to see what they say about a time frame for a fix. Thanks!

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