Dry Fire/ Live Fire ratio?

[wrx04]

I’m new to USPSA.  I’ve read Brian’s book, and have Stoeger’s and Anderson’s books on dry fire. I have a setup in my basement to practice, and the local group shoots twice a week.  What is considered a good ratio of dry to live fire?

 

From the reading I’ve done, it seems like dry fire is possibly more important than live fire.  Do you agree with this?  I’m contemplating buying a Dillon 1050, but maybe I don’t need it.  Seems like the number of rounds down range isn’t as important as I originally thought.  I load on a 550now, and perhaps a 650 will be plenty.

 

Let me know your thoughts on this.  Thanks 

[B585]

IMO it depends.  Although I have been shooting for over 30 years, I have only been shooting pistols for two years. I’ve been competing in USPSA for 1.5 years.  In  The beginning, I would have been better served to live fire more. I  usually made it to the range one time per week. I was dry firing 4 to 5 times per day at that time. What I didn’t realize then was I was often cheating in dry fire.  IMO live fire is how you verify that your techniques in dry fire will actually work for YOU.  I often found that my dry fire techique did not work on your live fire conditions in the beginning. As I have become more experienced, I have found that live fire isn’t quite as necessary…  now, I often go every 1 to 2 weeks for live fire. This is mainly because I understand my capabilities and don’t cheat as much during dry fire. 

In my opinion if you can afford a 1050 then you should get it. If you start competing in a lot of matches, you’re find you can burn through ammo really quick even if you are only live firing 1 time per week.

[Hi-Power Jack]

30 minutes ago, B585 said:

 live fire is how you verify  your techniques in dry fire  work for YOU. 

I  go every 1 to 2 weeks for live fire because I understand my capabilities and don’t cheat as much during dry fire. 

 

WOW !!!    

 

That sums it up in a nutshell.

[BoyGlock]

Depends on your goals. If you want to be on top of the heap make DF AND LF a daily training. If not, adjust accordingly. 

 

I used to DF much more than LF. It got me only so far. Recently, out of necessity, I LF much more than DF and the results are at the very least more than I expected. The way I see it, aside from the confirmation of skills in LF the self confidence it builds in ones’ skills is tremendous. 

[tanks]

I dry fire about 5 hours a week, live fire is 6-8 hours a week not counting competitions on weekends or training at places like TPC. As others have said live fire is confirmation of DF and dry fire is improving on issues discovered during live fire. They are not mutually exclusive. 

 

One thing though in regards to both is having focused practice rather than just putting in the time. My range is 80 miles each way from my house, so I have to make sure I get the maximize time spent by having a plan before I get there and stick to the plan.

[motosapiens]

In the beginning, I think more live-fire is necessary. with more experience, you can gain more and more in dryfire without over-reaching and screwing up by being unrealistic. Some smart people have also suggested that you need more live fire with iron sights than with optic divisions, but I don't have enough experience with optics to weigh in on that.

 

I find daily dryfire and once a week live-fire (plus a match) is about right for my attention span and level of commitment. during the summer i often add in a weeknight 4 stage steel match for a little extra.

 

Mrs moto has only been shooting 20 months or so, and finds that dryfiring every day is almost too much for her with only 1 livefire session a week, and she sometimes builds in some bad habits that have to be fixed. I found the same thing when I started, but that didn't stop me, lol.

 

Even 100 rounds of group shooting and bill drills (with special focus on shot-calling) can be pretty valuable live fire.

[edison]

Bob Vogel says he shoots about a ratio of 1:10

 

I would just keep the 550 & put the money towards the ammo budget. Since you're new, I would wait until the "caught the USPSA bug" wears off. It would sucks to have an unused 1050 if you're not as into USPSA anymore down the line.

 

Quote

How often do you dry fire?

In one form or another, just about every day. For sheer skill building I feel it has no equal. For every live round that I actually fire, I probably mimic that round eight to 10 times in dry fire. It is human nature to fear loud explosions going off in front of our faces, and therefore flinching or jerking the trigger, especially during rapid fire, is all too common. We need to train our bodies not to do this in an environment where we are very aware of what is going on. This is where dry fire comes into play.

https://www.personaldefenseworld.com/2014/05/11-questions-shooting-pro-robert-vogel

Edited March 22, 2018 by edison

[wrx04]

When you guys live fire, is it at a static range, or do you have room to run and gun?

 

Im fortunate to live close to a great range and group of shooters who practice twice a week and set up stages each time.  The problem is there is a lot of shooters.....I probably only get to run through four or five stages in a time period of four hours.  It’s fun, but seems like a horribly inefficient use of time.

 

Aside from having private land, is there any other way to get in some useful live fire.  I can do draw drills on the static range, but moving/reloads is where I really need practice.

 

Thanks for the replies so far

[bluedevil008]

I am in a position where I only get to live fire once a month, and it's typically in a local match setting.  I am not getting live fire reps in, except in a static and laned range maybe every other month, which makes it very difficult to test a lot of the skills we use. 

 

I dry fire probably 5-6 times a week, and I am still seeing my skills improve.  Knowing how to practice, how to dry-fire, and how to evaluate myself without live fire is an important skill, but it has taken me a long time to figure it out.

 

Ron Avery mentioned during a TPC class that he gets probably closer to 100 dry fire trigger pulls for each live fire round he fires.  

[BoyGlock]

9 hours ago, wrx04 said:

When you guys live fire, is it at a static range, or do you have room to run and gun?

 

Im fortunate to live close to a great range and group of shooters who practice twice a week and set up stages each time.  The problem is there is a lot of shooters.....I probably only get to run through four or five stages in a time period of four hours.  It’s fun, but seems like a horribly inefficient use of time.

 

Aside from having private land, is there any other way to get in some useful live fire.  I can do draw drills on the static range, but moving/reloads is where I really need practice.

 

Thanks for the replies so far

I usually do LF drills much more than cof stages so I dont rely too much on others’ company. In fact I tend to avoid cofs in favor of drills. But its useful to run cofs too, I just limit it. I found a long time ago that running cofs all the time tend to develop more bad habits than good ones. Cofs is for blending all the individual skills I got from DF/LF drills. When I do drills Im mostly conscious of one aspect of the skill. When I run cofs I train to execute subconsciously. I clear my mind of whats and hows. I let my training take over. When pushing speed its so easy to be undesciplined just to beat another shooters’ time. Its fun but its also when bad habits creep in. 

[tanks]

10 hours ago, wrx04 said:

When you guys live fire, is it at a static range, or do you have room to run and gun?

 

The reason I drive 80 miles each way to the range is that I can setup arrays and run and gun.  All you really need is three targets and a barricade and you can simulate almost any situation. For movement alone though you really do not need a range. That can be done mostly in dry fire even without a gun.

[wrx04]

1 hour ago, tanks said:

The reason I drive 80 miles each way to the range is that I can setup arrays and run and gun.  All you really need is three targets and a barricade and you can simulate almost any situation. For movement alone though you really do not need a range. That can be done mostly in dry fire even without a gun.

Yeah, I agree.  It takes serious dedication to drive that far on a regular basis though.

 

Personal time is is at a premium for me having two kids under age four.  I’ve gotta make the most of every hour.

[tanks]

Yeah, my kids are grown and all I have to worry about is my girlfriend. She is well trained by now though ;). For example she wanted to "Netflix and chill" this evening. I said in an hour after my dry fire. A year ago I would have heard  a grumble, now I hear "OK".