Religious Shooter Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 Looking for some intel. RM3G is about a month away. Gonna see what the hubub is about. Looking at the FAQ's its says that the rifle stages "ranges from a few yards to around 300 yards." Should I bring an upper that's geared for fast and so-so difficult long shots? ... a 16", carbon fiber HG with an Accupoint that's hella light. Or should I bring an upper that's geared towards more difficult and less fast action stages? ... a 20" with an aluminum HG with an IOR that's heavy as all. Do the stages tend to let you brace up? (+light) Or do they have somewhat crazy stuff and make you do 100+ yards standing? (+heavy) Are the targets easy to see? (OK IOR) Are the targets in the shade and in a darker setting? (not OK IOR) Is the longest shot really only 300 yards? Or are they fibbing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinistralRifleman Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 At the match last year, almost all the long rage shots were down hill...this was the hardest part of the stages. Also be prepared to shoot from less than ideal positions...or use rocks and trees to your benefit. The natural terrain aspect of this match makes shooting some of the stages much more interesting. They also usually have a 180 second time limit on the stages...if there is something you can't do on the long range stages, move on so you don't time out and add up the penalties even faster. I have some video from one of the rifle stages last year I can upload if you want to check it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny hill Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 You will be glad you brought a scope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 Longest shot I've seen was 335 yds. Depends on the time of day you shoot as to the light and shadow thing. You can count on move and shoot type stages for the long range and they usually have some sort of "rest" to use. I hope they let us run down hill again so the flatlanders have a chance. It will be challenging but very doable and great fun! I'm counting the days. Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunny Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 The longest target we lasered last year was 330 yards. All downhill targets. Generally, its 4-5 flash targets shot from 3-4 shooting postions. Prone, against a tree, rocks, etc., movement required from postion to postion. One house clearing stage with targets from point blant to 50 yards max. RM3G is my favorite of the major 3gun matches. It is a very well coordinated match. You will have fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmfield Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 No we're not fibbing about the 300 +/- yards. We think that is the reasonable maximum for iron sights. Probably won't get out as far as that 335 yard target last year, but we're not done with the design on one of the rifle stages - so you never know. There will be plenty of long shooting again this year and some short stuff as well. Lots of movement, too. We will painting flash targets black and working hard to make sure we have a light colored background to provide some contrast. In some cases we may use white painted backboards (a la SMM3G), but not so large. We are also experimenting with a chalk paint that we may spray the ground, etc with behind the targets. Just to tweak your interest: We plan to have two stages with "pick-up" guns, one of them is a belt-fed machine gun and one of them will involve steel plates at in-your-face distances (frangible ammo). Should be fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottmilk9 Posted July 24, 2005 Share Posted July 24, 2005 I'll be doing it with Iron sights, cant be that hard!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccur Posted July 24, 2005 Share Posted July 24, 2005 scott..you be the man!! cheryl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 RS, bring a good zero and the rifle you are most confident with and you will do well. Tip, know your 275, 300, 325 and 350 yard holds real well ;-) The up close and fast stuff wasn't anywhere near as important as actually hitting the LD targets and not taking forever doing it. I only deployed a bipod for one position last year and in retrospect, mono-podding would have served just as well. Have a great time and remember to look everywhere for targets, it's not at all like shooting bay matches, there are a lot of ways to not find targets if you try hard enuff ;-) -- Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike.45 Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 Whilst ROing the Hamburger Hill long distance rifle stage last year with Pacman, I noticed pretty much everyone, me included, was using the same technique on the rifle stage in that they were shooting at a distance target and waiting to observe the hit / miss through the sights, or waiting to hear the RO 'Hit' called, and on a miss they were topping up and kept repeating this until a hit was achieved, usually after an average of about 4 rounds. Competitors were not shooting slowly but probably a round per second to a second and a half, on average. This was very common and it had its benefits as the shooters could observe their strikes and adjust accordingly to get the hit but this technique did take a while for each target to be hit. One guy I RO'ed did it differently to the point I actually questioned why everyone, myself included, didnt simply do this, which was to get a good prone solid shooting position and sight picture and just blaze away 5 - 10 - 15 rounds or so at each target until he heard the RO call the Hit. He was using a JP competition rifle, a big compensator and a ACOG and I am pretty sure was shooting open class and so was bi-podding most shots but he was shooting very fast and was getting fast hits and probably came in the top 5% on that stage. Naturally he had to do a few mag changes but the stage design allowed plenty of time for that to happen in between shooting positions. I am not an experianced rifle shooter, where as it was obvious this competitor was, but I was left with the impression that the fast and furious technique may have some merit and it seemed to work, for him anyway !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PacMan Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 Mike, The technique you referred to, we jokingly called "cone of fire" - kinda like the old "carpet bombing". I just couldn't get myself to do it, may be out of the old marksmanship teaching. I'm going to be running one of the long range rifle stage again, so looking forward to see you all. Bring good trail running boots & a bottle of oxygen amigos (I know CPR but have not been to a refresher course in quite a few years so don't count on me ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 This will be my first year ROing or shooting the RMM3G. Looking forward to it even though I am shooting .308 with iron sights. Should be good for a laugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Religious Shooter Posted August 10, 2005 Author Share Posted August 10, 2005 Hmm... so what exactly does shooting downhill mean to my hold? Ballistically it's closer than what's lasered right? So I use the "horizontal" (closer) distance instead of the lasered difference to determine my hold over/under? Don't have time to rezero at 7000 ft. What's going to be the effect of about +6900 ft of increased elevation to my zero? Higher hits? Lower hits? By how much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted August 10, 2005 Share Posted August 10, 2005 Zero at 200 where you are coming from. Hold at the top of plates at 300, just over at 330 and you will hit them. The slope is not that great and you will hit them if you can hold properly from a solid position. I thought it would matter the first year I went to RM3G. Last year I just set my zero at home and went for it with no regard for the altitude, no problemo. 300-330 yards is no big thing with .223 at varying altitudes and means little compared to keeping your chest from heaving and your pulse pounding at 7k. The cone of fire method mentioned earlier does have it's plusses. I tried it on some of the longer targets at the MGM Ironman a few years back and it does work, it's a real barrel burner technique though ;-) -- Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PacMan Posted August 10, 2005 Share Posted August 10, 2005 Hmm... so what exactly does shooting downhill mean to my hold?Ballistically it's closer than what's lasered right? So I use the "horizontal" (closer) distance instead of the lasered difference to determine my hold over/under? Don't have time to rezero at 7000 ft. What's going to be the effect of about +6900 ft of increased elevation to my zero? Higher hits? Lower hits? By how much? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Down hill shooting at shallow angles would have negligible affect on the POI. A change of almost 7,000 feet in elevation will result in higher POI, but again, we are talking about an inch or so at our target distances, not enough to worry about. Besides, you can verify zero at the NRAWC. George is correct in saying that the altitude will have more effect on you than your rifle Like I had suggested, bring a bottle of oxygen ...Or may be we should have an Oxygen Bar (for a small fee of course) at each stage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRUBL Posted August 11, 2005 Share Posted August 11, 2005 Keith...now with the 308 and shooting down hill. you will need to take your 300 yard zero and go 15 clicks higher, infact, in your case 25 clicks. Also, you will be better off using the 110 grain ammo in the higher cross winds. I've found you don't need to waste money on the hornady crap.....pulled 30 cal carbine bullets will do just fine. Now for the short range, house clearing courses....full boat 220 grain loads will do the trick. This info along with using the 3.5" mag loads for your pump, that I had mentioned earlier to you will be THE ticket for this match.....I'm only trying to help you out as this is your first time coming to Raton and I want it to be as pleasant as possible for you, as well as a giving you a competative edge over ANYONE else shooting the HE-MAN class. NOW.....the DISCLAIMER!!!....this secret match info is for Keith only and no one else shooting HE-MAN should use this info, only Keith. Infact...you are not Keith,....forget you ever read this......you didn't see anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinistralRifleman Posted August 11, 2005 Share Posted August 11, 2005 This info along with using the 3.5" mag loads for your pump, that I had mentioned earlier to you will be THE ticket for this match..... Didn't someone last year, really shoot the whole match with 3" magnum 00 buckshot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted August 11, 2005 Share Posted August 11, 2005 Keith...now with the 308 and shooting down hill. you will need to take your 300 yard zero and go 15 clicks higher, infact, in your case 25 clicks. Also, you will be better off using the 110 grain ammo in the higher cross winds. I've found you don't need to waste money on the hornady crap.....pulled 30 cal carbine bullets will do just fine. Now for the short range, house clearing courses....full boat 220 grain loads will do the trick.This info along with using the 3.5" mag loads for your pump, that I had mentioned earlier to you will be THE ticket for this match.....I'm only trying to help you out as this is your first time coming to Raton and I want it to be as pleasant as possible for you, as well as a giving you a competative edge over ANYONE else shooting the HE-MAN class. NOW.....the DISCLAIMER!!!....this secret match info is for Keith only and no one else shooting HE-MAN should use this info, only Keith. Infact...you are not Keith,....forget you ever read this......you didn't see anything. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> What? Don't you want me to shoot my .45 revolver for the handgun portion, also? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike.45 Posted August 11, 2005 Share Posted August 11, 2005 Looks like there will be a few of us shooting He Man this year - what set up's are you boys using, AR10's, 1911 single stacks, Winchesters, 870's etc ?? Have to know what I am up against !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted August 11, 2005 Share Posted August 11, 2005 I am shooting a M1A Scout rifle, 870, and a Glock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PacMan Posted August 11, 2005 Share Posted August 11, 2005 3.5" mag in a pump! Now that's He-Man Class I think I'll go back to goose hunting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottmilk9 Posted August 11, 2005 Share Posted August 11, 2005 Im shooting tactical iron sights this year. looks like alot of people in heman class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cactustactical Posted August 11, 2005 Share Posted August 11, 2005 Yips, what hotel are you staying at? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottmilk9 Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 We're staying in someones cabin, i think its right by the range, talk to you about it tomorrow at the 2 gun if you are going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cactustactical Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 You must be in the range cabins. I have stayed in those the last 2 years, but am staying at the Microtel in town this year. Thecabins are not bad for the price, reminds me of summer camp as a kid. See you tomorrow at Rio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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