Muzzle flip due to bcg travel?

[JAFO]

On ‎2‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 8:27 PM, L9X25 said:

 

I cannot speak to bolt catch longevity, I have only run my gun dry a few times to test the LRBHO and have not broken one yet.  I have the Blitzkrieg buffer and do not think that I have more than 1/4" of travel beyond the latch.

 

I short-stopped my original carbine buffer and spring with quarters because I had a significant overtravel.  When I went to a Blitzkrieg, it was long enough that I removed all of the quarters from the tube.  I have about the same spacing as stated above.  Something else I noticed, that I think Eric diagnosed, was that when I short-stopped the bolt, my dot movement was up and right.  When I let the bolt complete its travel with the Blitzkrieg, the dot movement is now straight up.

 

I have a .308 rifle spring in there now, but I'm also using a fairly hot pistol load.  I'm going to be testing some new loads this weekend, so I may end up going with a lighter spring to match a lighter load.

Edited February 13, 2018 by JAFO

[Flatland Shooter]

1 hour ago, MikieM said:

I will have to try it myself, but I am dubious, Flats.

 

 Let me know how it works out for you.

 

I also had my doubts but once I gave it a try, I'm a happy camper.  

 

[Flatland Shooter]

2 hours ago, MikieM said:

 

 

Double

Edited February 13, 2018 by Flatland Shooter

[MikieM]

2 minutes ago, Flatland Shooter said:

 Let me know how it works out for you.

 

I also had my doubts but once I gave it a try, I'm a happy camper.  

 

 

Will do.

Hey, I'm just like everyone else around here. It's all brand new. 

We're trail blazers, don't you know.

[L9X25]

 

1 hour ago, JAFO said:

I have a .308 rifle spring in there now, but I'm also using a fairly hot pistol load.  I'm going to be testing some new loads this weekend, so I may end up going with a lighter spring to match a lighter load.

 

I had a .308 Carbine spring in the gun, with the Blitzkrieg, and I was pretty happy with factory WWB ammo.  When I went to my own reloads (~130PF) I was flatter/softer with the .223 Carbine spring and that is still in the gun. 

[Flatland Shooter]

Maybe we should put all our good ideas on a special password protected thread to keep out all those young whipper snappers.   I recommend "Geritol" for the PW.  

 

 

[MikieM]

20 minutes ago, Flatland Shooter said:

Maybe we should put all our good ideas on a special password protected thread to keep out all those young whipper snappers.   I recommend "Geritol" for the PW.  

 

 

 

Agreed. Or, how about IHABM-IPT (I had a bowel movement, it's party time)?

What do you say, L9?

[JAFO]

34 minutes ago, L9X25 said:

 

 

I had a .308 Carbine spring in the gun, with the Blitzkrieg, and I was pretty happy with factory WWB ammo.  When I went to my own reloads (~130PF) I was flatter/softer with the .223 Carbine spring and that is still in the gun. 

 

I have .308 rifle, .308 carbine, and .223 carbine springs to play with, so I should be able to find something I like.  The bigger pain is it will be two trips.  One to chrono and accuracy test the three loads I made, and another after I load up a hundred or so of the load I pick to test the springs.

[stick]

A friend of mine prefers the carbine spring with his Taccom buffer shooting Winchester white box ammo. 

 

2 hours ago, L9X25 said:

 

 

I had a .308 Carbine spring in the gun, with the Blitzkrieg, and I was pretty happy with factory WWB ammo.  When I went to my own reloads (~130PF) I was flatter/softer with the .223 Carbine spring and that is still in the gun. 

 

[L9X25]

1 hour ago, MikieM said:

 

Agreed. Or, how about IHABM-IPT (I had a bowel movement, it's party time)?

What do you say, L9?

 

I'd rather not jinx it by talking about it ...

 

7 minutes ago, stick said:

A friend of mine prefers the carbine spring with his Taccom buffer shooting Winchester white box ammo. 

 

 

 

And they say there is no consensus!

[muncie21]

I'm still testing a 7.5oz Kaw Valley buffer to a 4.9 w/spacers to see which one runs better in my PCC.  The KV buffer just barely allows the bolt to come back far enough to grab the BHO catch.

[MikieM]

4 hours ago, muncie21 said:

I'm still testing a 7.5oz Kaw Valley buffer to a 4.9 w/spacers to see which one runs better in my PCC.  The KV buffer just barely allows the bolt to come back far enough to grab the BHO catch.

 

Me, too. With the 7.5 ounce buffer I plan on using a Sprinco "Red" spring. I also have a 10 ounce buffer to try, and will be using a Sprinco "Orange" spring with it. 

And, just so Flats doesn't feel bad, I'm going to see how a 6 ounce buffer with a standard Sprinco "White" carbine spring works.

All will use the same 130 PF load out of a 10.5 inch Faxon barrel with welded extension.

[muncie21]

Interested to hear what you figure out Mikie

[Flatland Shooter]

1 hour ago, MikieM said:

 

And, just so Flats doesn't feel bad, I'm going to see how a 6 ounce buffer with a standard Sprinco "White" carbine spring works.

 

 

Made my day.  

[L9X25]

1 hour ago, MikieM said:

 

Me, too. With the 7.5 ounce buffer I plan on using a Sprinco "Red" spring. I also have a 10 ounce buffer to try, and will be using a Sprinco "Orange" spring with it. 

And, just so Flats doesn't feel bad, I'm going to see how a 6 ounce buffer with a standard Sprinco "White" carbine spring works.

All will use the same 130 PF load out of a 10.5 inch Faxon barrel with welded extension.

 

My observation, back when I was shooting the SCS, was that going extremely heavy on the buffer made the recoil cycle last longer, to the point that the bolt slamming into the barrel felt disconnected from the recoil impulse of the bolt hitting me.  Since you can time my splits on a sun dial, that did not cause a problem, but it did feel as if the gun took longer to settle down after a shot.  Going progressively lighter made the rifle settle down faster and made the follow-up shot tighter.  This is not really a "this feels better than that" type of thing, more of a "the bill drill group likes this better than that" type of thing. 

 

Let's face it, where most of our rifle already are, they are all shootable "as is".  None of our rifles recoil so bad that we can't compete with them, we are just looking for a small increment of improvement.  

[MikieM]

24 minutes ago, L9X25 said:

Let's face it, where most of our rifle already are, they are all shootable "as is".  None of our rifles recoil so bad that we can't compete with them, we are just looking for a small increment of improvement.  

 

This is it my friends, in a nutshell. We all have guns we can compete with, at the ready.

I am retired. I have time on my hands. The tinkering and testing is all part of the hobby. It's something to do.

Back in the day I was an A shooter (we didn't have M and GM) and I shot a 1984 model 1911 single-stack race gun (LE comp) that I built myself. So tweaking a gun to find it's best performance somewhat makes up for my inability to run through a stage like I did in my youth. 

But never fear. I shall report back. 

 

Edited February 17, 2018 by MikieM

[stick]

35 minutes ago, L9X25 said:

 

 

 

Let's face it, where most of our rifle already are, they are all shootable "as is".  None of our rifles recoil so bad that we can't compete with them, we are just looking for a small increment of improvement.  

 

14 minutes ago, MikieM said:

 

This is it my friends, in a nutshell. We all have guns we can compete with, at the ready.

 

I agree somewhat with both of you to an extent.  So today I shot an Action steel match with my daughter's PCC.  (Mine is getting new ramped barrel)  Her PCC is similar whereas we both have the same manufacturers lowers (hers is a billet and mine is a forged), we both have the same Taccom 3 stage buffer running the same springs, we both have C-more Railways with 6 moa dots, we both have Hiperfire 24C triggers running the same springs.  She has the Taccom ULW barrel and carbon fiber handguard.  I have the regular upper with 16" barrel and handguard.  While I dry fire practiced with her gun all week, when I shot the action steel match today, her gun recoils entirely different than mine.  her gun has a flip where my gun is more of a push. I was able to compete but my I just never got into a really good rhythm shooting the stages.  I had mistakes that i strongly believe i wouldn't of had with my competition gun.  Does the gun recoil hurt?  Absolutely not but it was a significant change in what I was used to that it threw me off.  

[MikieM]

To my way of thinking it's in the barrels. 

The pressure spike occurs at about the same time (same ammo, mind you) in both barrels. Only a couple of nanoseconds after the round has fired. The ULW barrel with a true barrel (Trubl?) of 5.25 inches sees the bullet exit the muzzle very shortly there after. The 16 inch barrel, however, still has a fair amount of gas (albeit it rapidly diminishing) behind the bullet before leaving the muzzle. The actual recoil should be greater with the 16 inch barrel given that it produces more energy, but my guess is that it is off-set by the extra weight.

We often describe the recoil from a 16 inch barrel as a "push", and from shorter barrels a "pop", or "hit".

I would think you could adapt to either one, given time.

[stick]

3 minutes ago, MikieM said:

To my way of thinking it's in the barrels. 

The pressure spike occurs at about the same time (same ammo, mind you) in both barrels. Only a couple of nanoseconds after the round has fired. The ULW barrel with a true barrel (Trubl?) of 5.25 inches sees the bullet exit the muzzle very shortly there after. The 16 inch barrel, however, still has a fair amount of gas (albeit it rapidly diminishing) behind the bullet before leaving the muzzle. The actual recoil should be greater with the 16 inch barrel given that it produces more energy, but my guess is that it is off-set by the extra weight.

We often describe the recoil from a 16 inch barrel as a "push", and from shorter barrels a "pop", or "hit".

I would think you could adapt to either one, given time.

I totally agree with everything you said.  Given time, I would adapt.  Her gun weighs 5lbs10oz and mine is a hefty 7+ lbs.  

[noexcuses]

27 minutes ago, MikieM said:

To my way of thinking it's in the barrels. 

The pressure spike occurs at about the same time (same ammo, mind you) in both barrels. Only a couple of nanoseconds after the round has fired. The ULW barrel with a true barrel (Trubl?) of 5.25 inches sees the bullet exit the muzzle very shortly there after. The 16 inch barrel, however, still has a fair amount of gas (albeit it rapidly diminishing) behind the bullet before leaving the muzzle. The actual recoil should be greater with the 16 inch barrel given that it produces more energy, but my guess is that it is off-set by the extra weight.

We often describe the recoil from a 16 inch barrel as a "push", and from shorter barrels a "pop", or "hit".

I would think you could adapt to either one, given time.

I would disagree with that part of statement, I ran 16" barrels and now run the 5.25" taccom, both at 130pf. I just run more powder with the shorter barrel and both are at 130pf.  Now if running the same powder charge I would agree  

[MikieM]

10 minutes ago, noexcuses said:

I would disagree with that part of statement, I ran 16" barrels and now run the 5.25" taccom, both at 130pf. I just run more powder with the shorter barrel and both are at 130pf.  Now if running the same powder charge I would agree  

 

Precisely. Notice in parenthese I said, "same ammo." 

[noexcuses]

9 minutes ago, MikieM said:

 

Precisely. Notice in parenthese I said, "same ammo." 

did not see that, old eyes, slow feet and brains lol

[MikieM]

48 minutes ago, stick said:

Her gun weighs 5lbs10oz and mine is a hefty 7+ lbs.  

 

Damn, stick! Seven plus pounds? 

My Grandmother, who weighs 87 pounds and will be 109 years old come Tuesday, wouldn't feel the recoil of that gun. 

You must be stouter than six feet up a bull's rear end to be able to haul that thing around a stage. Kudos.  

[MikieM]

4 minutes ago, noexcuses said:

did not see that, old eyes, slow feet and brains lol

 

I kind of thought that.

You know, if you and I had a foot race from box A to the first target, we'd have time for lunch before we got there. 

[stick]

16 minutes ago, MikieM said:

 

Damn, stick! Seven plus pounds? 

My Grandmother, who weighs 87 pounds and will be 109 years old come Tuesday, wouldn't feel the recoil of that gun. 

You must be stouter than six feet up a bull's rear end to be able to haul that thing around a stage. Kudos.  

I'm 6'5" and weigh 215-220lbs and the gun weighs 7 lbs 13.1ounces to be exact.

maybe you can tell my size by this video.  shot with my gun.  Ignore the hiccup when i thought the mag fell out.

 

Edited February 17, 2018 by stick