Am I costing myself time running Aimpoint instead of 1-6?

[Jeremybj]

Greetings to all,

 

I have been looking for some insight and feedback to see what you guys are running on your ARs for optics.  Currently I am running a semi custom Seekins AR with an Aimpoint Pro.  

 

When shooting 100 yard targets I find myself messing around for a split second actually seeing the target in the optic because of background, beat up target, whatever.

 

The guys running 1-4, 1-6, or 1-8 optics is there a difference or advantage in your option or is a 1x optic just as fast as what you are running?  A guy with a scope and a 1x optic probably can give me the best feedback, but any experiences would be appreciated!

 

Jeremy

[EaZeNuTZ33]

I’ve shot TacIrons (1x only) and TacOps quite a bit. An important thing here is....it’s two different divisions, and really aren’t meant to be compared to each other unless you’re shooting TacIrons gear in TacOps, then you’re giving yourself a disadvantage. I’ve done this, shooting Open with my TacOps gear, and knee going into it that my equipment was well under the limits of what was allowed.

 

You can shoot tacirons with your Aimpoint Pro and just compete in that division. Changing to a variable optic forces you into TacOps.

 

TacOps should have an advantage over TacIron division on long range and maybe a little with offhand rifle, just like Open should have some advantages over both TacOps and TacIrons for most/all aspects.

 

if you are worried about your finish overall, Open gives you the equipment advantages at the cost of buying all the gear and keeping it all running. If you want to compete with the largest pool of shooters, you may want a quality variable optic (I prefer the Vortex Razor 1-6) to compete within the TacOps division where you find 60-75% of shooters at most major matches. If you’re wanting to compete with the gear you have, you’ve got some solid competition out there in the TacIrons division, and there’s nothing wrong with competing there either! There is a point of pride in hitting the longest target at a match with a 1x optic too.

[Jmoreno88]

As stated your time is only going against other people in the limited division. I myself run an aimpoint comp m4 red dot and some things are slower and some are faster.
I find my transitions with closer targets are faster than with a scope. I also don't have to worry about any eye relief issues.
So in my opinion unless your stages are 150+ yards then I don't think a red dot is holding you back

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[Spartan1911]

I too run Limited/TacIrons and have the same issue. Hitting the target isn’t the problem, it’s seeing it in the first place. I have noticed this however, when my game is on and the lighting is right a red dot can be faster if you have both close and long range arrays since you don’t have to fool with the optic.

 

As always, it going to depend on the matches you’ll shoot. Will you have a lot of long range, or mostly burners?

 

(PS. I am moving to TacOps this year, so my opinion may change)

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Garmil]

Use a 1-6 and compare. That’s the only way to know if it’s faster for you.

[TheStagePlan]

I just came from a trijicon srs to a swaro 1-8 for sure long range is quicker and shoot range is about the same for me. You must get something with a forgiving eye box if not the run offset sights.

 

[davsco]

hit a 3 gun match if you're not already, and ask a few guys if you can run a stage with their magnified optics rifles and see for yourself.  maybe after the match is over, and compare times with your red dot times.  i run magnified but really don't have a choice as i def can't see those targets out past 200 and sometimes even closer depending on if they're painted, in the shade, etc.

[ambluemax]

Aside from the obvious division difference. You aren't really at a disadvantage at that distance, you WILL have better luck if you sight in for a 6:00 hold on your red dot so you can hold low on all the targets. This way you can see the dot AND the target in relation to each other. 

[Spartan1911]

36 minutes ago, ambluemax said:

Aside from the obvious division difference. You aren't really at a disadvantage at that distance, you WILL have better luck if you sight in for a 6:00 hold on your red dot so you can hold low on all the targets. This way you can see the dot AND the target in relation to each other. 

Damn, I never thought of that. 

[ambluemax]

I didn't either until it was pointed out to me. Game changer. 

[StealthyBlagga]

1) Dial the brightness down a few clicks on your red dot. It will make the dot appear smaller and less overwhelming - a big improvement for anything past 50 yards.

2) Tell the MD that you are struggling to see the longer targets, and ask him to add contrasting backers (e.g. white corplast behind a black steel target). This makes a huge difference, but unfortunately many MDs don't like to do it (either through laziness or to pander to the scope folks who can't hit a target without walking their shots in).

[raz-0]

Way back I ran a 1.5-5 and a 1-4. Then for a long while I ran a 3moa dot. Now I'm going back to magnified, but a good quality scope. With the popular 1-6 and 1-8 3gun scopes, the 1x is a world of difference from the early days of 1-4x scopes. We'll see how I do with it this season, but the guys I shoot with were a collection of red dots, irons and 1-4x people. Everyone is moving to decent 1-6 or 1-8 glass that has daylight visible illumination. 

 

The answer to your question of "am I costing myself time" is yes. By the raw, heads up, only first place matters and how close am I to it type of counting, you are costing yourself time. By the the metric of can I go faster compared to myself type of counting the answer is yes. The more long distance shots, the bigger the yes becomes. The more bay stages, the smaller the yes becomes, especially the yes to you vs. you. 

 

Compared to a 1-4 with an fairly unforgiving eye box, you will pick up time on close in stuff and small bays moving to a dot. However, with the newer scopes you aren't picking up much time if any using a dot because the new, good scopes are so forgiving of eye position at 1x. On top of that, very often to keep bay stages remotely challenging, the rifle is either omitted in 3 gun, or you wind up with reduced targets or headshots only, or some other situation where sight offset matters. In these instances, the gap may narrow even more because the reticle may be useful in establishing the right holdover faster, or because you can spend a second to bump up the magnification and be really precise on a reduced target at 50 yards. Compared to somene of similar skill to yourself you are probably picking up a couple seconds per bay stage. Maybe. 

 

But then there's longer ranges. Where you will give back those seconds pretty rapidly. Especially as you hit the edge of your visual abilities. I've gotten pretty good at hitting 6" steel offhand at 100, but for me at 200 anything below 8" becomes more about chance and accuracy through volume than about any actual skill.  Even if the target is big enough that hitting it shouldn't be challenging, at distances where canting starts to matter, having a reticle that helps you to estimate reasonably if you are canting badly is advantageous. 

 

Then there's situational things. Got even a minor astigmatism? Prismatic or magnified is for you! It's humid and just cold enough to be flurrying? Guess how fast your optics are going to fog up? The magnified optics with the glass slightly recessed from the end of the tube out on a cantilever mount will fog up slower. On a 100 yard stage that gives you much more opportunity to actually finish before the fog gets you. aimpoint micros and clones are the worst in that situation.  You got a shot up hunk of ar500 out there agaisnt a gravel back drop? Well the AR coatings that help make the rd dot work rob you of contrast. The good 1-X scopes have way better contrast, so those targets are easier to see and aim at faster. Also remember canting?  From normal positions, canting may not be an issue if you practice your technique, but sometimes 3 gun is about pretzelizing yourself to accommodate stage demands. 

 

Then there's the matter of fun. If we wanted to shoot by ourselves, we wouldn't be at a match. Last match of the season I went to had 70 something people. It had 6 limited shooters and we weren't even placed all that close together, so it isn't even like you could just say I'm here to beat Bob who is always a bit better than me. 

 

 

[Jeremybj]

Wow guys thanks for the feedback.  In little South Dakota I've only run .atches where it's "rung what you bring" so no decisions.

 

I plan to get more involved traveling this year to matches, been doing it for long range, time to start for 3 gun.  I'll probably run taciron just because I don't need any new gear.

 

One thing I will try is setting the red dot to the 6:00 position. It makes sense to me.  

 

Thanks for the feedback!