Aasp76 Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 (edited) Hello guys! I'm having light primer strikes in my stock 2(small frame), I want to install the Titan hammer but with the small frame / large frame issues I wonder if is the same for both frames. Help please! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Edited October 23, 2017 by Aasp76 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbu Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 As far as i know, Hammers are identical. Just so you are aware, the titan hammer will change the geometry of the system and, if used, the 1 piece sear will need to be fitted to allow the safety to function. There are write ups about it here. Be sure you have "good" ammo with the primers set BELOW flush. CCI and S&B should be 0.008 inch below flush. Winchester 0.006". Federal 0.003 below flush. The harder the primer, the deeper it needs to be set. Many (if not most) light strike issues can be traced to the primer seating depth. Today at the range a factory stock M&P was light striking factory ammo. The primers were about 0.010" HIGH after being struck !! He was cussing the gun, but should have been cussing the ammo ! We found the struck ammo later on the ground. But with that said, a solid polish job of all friction areas will also greatly increase reliability of the gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haiedras Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 They are identical, I have titan hammers in all 4 of my small frames. are you getting light strikes in DA, SA, or both? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 @Aasp76 The Titan hammer is very unlikely to reduce the occurance of light strikes, but it’ll improve your single action trigger feel. What else is in your gun as it’s currently set up - particularly the hammer spring weight? Does your ammo pass the plunk & spin tests perfectly? What kind of primers are you feeding it, and how deeply are they buried? (In measured thousandths of an inch, not “well, they feel like they’re flush...” ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatriotDefense Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 Tuning or changing out the Firing Pin Spring will you give you a bit more energy into the firing pin as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aasp76 Posted October 23, 2017 Author Share Posted October 23, 2017 9 hours ago, haiedras said: They are identical, I have titan hammers in all 4 of my small frames. are you getting light strikes in DA, SA, or both? Just in SA, the first shot in DA works well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aasp76 Posted October 23, 2017 Author Share Posted October 23, 2017 50 minutes ago, MemphisMechanic said: @Aasp76 The Titan hammer is very unlikely to reduce the occurance of light strikes, but it’ll improve your single action trigger feel. What else is in your gun as it’s currently set up - particularly the hammer spring weight? Does your ammo pass the plunk & spin tests perfectly? What kind of primers are you feeding it, and how deeply are they buried? (In measured thousandths of an inch, not “well, they feel like they’re flush...” ) Well I was looking the hammer way since I read somewhere an article from Graufel about it, basically said that to solve the light primer strike problem it's not necessary to change things like firing ping or springs, he stated that the Titan hammer works like charm with the Xtreme light firing ping spring, but here I'm looking for some wisdom from tanfoglio experts! Does your ammo pass the plunk & spin tests perfectly? Yes It's! What kind of primers are you feeding it, and how deeply are they buried? Well Memphis, the problem was with this factory ammo: - CCI BLAZER BRASS AMMO 9MM LUGER 124GR FMJ-RN - Magtech 9MM 115GR FMJ AMMO As well with my loads with Magtech and CCI primers. It doesn't happen with Federal, Aguila, winchester and remington primers. I'm using a XL650 so can't (or don't know how to) set an standard deep to seat the primers. My gun: Tanfoglio Stock 2 Xtreme completely stock, nothing change inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aasp76 Posted October 23, 2017 Author Share Posted October 23, 2017 11 hours ago, johnbu said: As far as i know, Hammers are identical. Just so you are aware, the titan hammer will change the geometry of the system and, if used, the 1 piece sear will need to be fitted to allow the safety to function. There are write ups about it here. Be sure you have "good" ammo with the primers set BELOW flush. CCI and S&B should be 0.008 inch below flush. Winchester 0.006". Federal 0.003 below flush. The harder the primer, the deeper it needs to be set. Many (if not most) light strike issues can be traced to the primer seating depth. Today at the range a factory stock M&P was light striking factory ammo. The primers were about 0.010" HIGH after being struck !! He was cussing the gun, but should have been cussing the ammo ! We found the struck ammo later on the ground. But with that said, a solid polish job of all friction areas will also greatly increase reliability of the gun. @johnbu Thanks for the info! Sorry for the question, how can I measure the deep of a seated primer ? I have not do this before since this is the first time with this issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 14 minutes ago, Aasp76 said: @johnbu Thanks for the info! Sorry for the question, how can I measure the deep of a seated primer ? I have not do this before since this is the first time with this issue. Use the tail of the caliper, rather than the jaws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 25 minutes ago, Aasp76 said: Well I was looking the hammer way since I read somewhere an article from Graufel about it, basically said that to solve the light primer strike problem it's not necessary to change things like firing ping or springs, he stated that the Titan hammer works like charm with the Xtreme light firing ping spring, but here I'm looking for some wisdom from tanfoglio experts! The Titan hammer will hit harder, however my experience has led me to believe that you will need to run a heavier hammer spring than the EGD Light in order to run CCI or Magteth primers. My gun had an aftermarket firing pin, the internals were mirror polished to run completely smoothly in a way you cannot legally do as an IPSC shooter, I ran the Titan hammer, and did extensive fitting and tuning over three months. I still needed a heavier spring in order to have a gun that ran 100% reliably when dirty and in a critical match situation. Either Patriot Defense’s 15.5 or the EGD Medium 16lb spring, specifically. On Winchester or S&B or similar primers, it ate absolutely anything. 25 minutes ago, Aasp76 said: As well with my loads with Magtech and CCI primers. It doesn't happen with Federal, Aguila, winchester and remington primers. I'm using a XL650 so can't (or don't know how to) set an standard deep to seat the primers. I load on an XL650 as well. You can shim the small black L bracket on the frame that the primer seating punch operates against: loosen the bolts and slide a washer underneath it. This will cause your press to seat primers a bit more deeply. Magtech and CCI primers are the hardest primers to ignite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aasp76 Posted October 23, 2017 Author Share Posted October 23, 2017 Thank you all for sharing your knowledge and for your advice. I will update the topic once I have received the pieces from PD and test the result on my gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbu Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 10 hours ago, Aasp76 said: Just in SA, the first shot in DA works well. If this is true... the gun may have other issues away from the hammer. Sa ALWAYS hits harder than DA. If you have SA fail to fire, you have other issues. I would inspect the firing pin block and firing pin very closely. They are probably crashing together. MemphisMechanic has a nice post on how to ensure they work together correctly. The slide may also be stopping short of full battery. Inspect the locking lugs and rails. I would also "plunk, thunk, drop" a full 50 or 100 rounds to be sure they ALL fall out after being pressed in the barrel hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haiedras Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 SA makes no sense...you should be getting the full force of the hammer in SA.Just an FYI, almost everyone's experience on the tanfo forums is with large frames. I run the egd extended fp with the pd fp spring and a 13lb pd spring in my primary and a 14lb pd spring in my backup. This combination lights off winchesters and s&b's. What I find is that in SA, the primer strikes are deep, like I'm almost about to pierce the primer deep. I'd stay away from magtechs, I know they're the same company as s&b, but for some reason the magtechs I had were the hardest primers I've ever tried. Basically needed stock everything and then some to light off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aasp76 Posted October 23, 2017 Author Share Posted October 23, 2017 SA makes no sense...you should be getting the full force of the hammer in SA.Just an FYI, almost everyone's experience on the tanfo forums is with large frames. I run the egd extended fp with the pd fp spring and a 13lb pd spring in my primary and a 14lb pd spring in my backup. This combination lights off winchesters and s&b's. What I find is that in SA, the primer strikes are deep, like I'm almost about to pierce the primer deep. I'd stay away from magtechs, I know they're the same company as s&b, but for some reason the magtechs I had were the hardest primers I've ever tried. Basically needed stock everything and then some to light off. [emoji14]Thank you Haiedras, in fact I ordered the Titan hammer and the medium weight Xtreme FP spring in order to keep factory parts because IPSC restrictions and a PD 14# FP for test purposes.I will let you know the results!Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aasp76 Posted October 23, 2017 Author Share Posted October 23, 2017 If this is true... the gun may have other issues away from the hammer. Sa ALWAYS hits harder than DA. If you have SA fail to fire, you have other issues. I would inspect the firing pin block and firing pin very closely. They are probably crashing together. MemphisMechanic has a nice post on how to ensure they work together correctly. The slide may also be stopping short of full battery. Inspect the locking lugs and rails. I would also "plunk, thunk, drop" a full 50 or 100 rounds to be sure they ALL fall out after being pressed in the barrel hard.Thank you johnbu, also I will look for the MemphisMechanic post.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goshimu Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 SF s2 Xtreme here with med EG springs. Xtreme delta hammer. no issues with CCI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avenida Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 I have a fully polished trigger job as per the recommendations on this forum and my trigger is silky smooth at 5lbs 3oz with EGD light springs, however, SB primers lit unreliably with this setup and Federal are 100% (regardless of seating depth), I have tried everything. I gave up chasing the perfect reliable light trigger with hard primers and installed the medium EGD (Eric Grauffel parts) MEDIUM, now I am 100% with any primer. I have all extreme parts in my stock 2 including the titan hammer. Trigger is now 7lbs 6 oz but I do not car, I prefer the extra 2lbs than dealing with finding Federal primers (non existent) and light strikes and unreliability. I am happy now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goshimu Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 2 minutes ago, Avenida said: I have a fully polished trigger job as per the recommendations on this forum and my trigger is silky smooth at 5lbs 3oz with EGD light springs, however, SB primers lit unreliably with this setup and Federal are 100% (regardless of seating depth), I have tried everything. I gave up chasing the perfect reliable light trigger with hard primers and installed the medium EGD (Eric Grauffel parts) MEDIUM, now I am 100% with any primer. I have all extreme parts in my stock 2 including the titan hammer. Trigger is now 7lbs 6 oz but I do not car, I prefer the extra 2lbs than dealing with finding Federal primers (non existent) and light strikes and unreliability. I am happy now. Agreed. Wear everything in with this gear and it’ll be so smooth you won’t waste time tuning you’ll just shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aasp76 Posted October 30, 2017 Author Share Posted October 30, 2017 2 minutes ago, Avenida said: I have a fully polished trigger job as per the recommendations on this forum and my trigger is silky smooth at 5lbs 3oz with EGD light springs, however, SB primers lit unreliably with this setup and Federal are 100% (regardless of seating depth), I have tried everything. I gave up chasing the perfect reliable light trigger with hard primers and installed the medium EGD (Eric Grauffel parts) MEDIUM, now I am 100% with any primer. I have all extreme parts in my stock 2 including the titan hammer. Trigger is now 7lbs 6 oz but I do not car, I prefer the extra 2lbs than dealing with finding Federal primers (non existent) and light strikes and unreliability. I am happy now. Good info since I like to do IPSC I have to use stock parts only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avenida Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 (edited) No problem, in other words and if you are looking for simplicity, just get the Medium spring and forget about it. In a match, you will not noticed the extra 2lbs, ever and the SA is much crisper and nice with the medium spring than with the light spring (the L spring makes the first step/pretravel in SA before the break very spongey). Edited October 30, 2017 by Avenida Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goshimu Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Avenida said: No problem, in other words and if you are anything like me looking for simplicity, just get the Medium spring and forget about it. In a match, you will not noticed the extra 2lbs, ever. I have the exact same gun as you. Yes, the answer to me is certainly yes. I can pull the Da as fast as possible with the Med setup/Xtreme delta hammer and put the shot where it needs to go. My gun also goes bang every time. Edited October 30, 2017 by goshimu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fasthenk65 Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 Stock 2 Xtreme small frame here, only change is 14 PD hammer spring, ignites all but the hardest primers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goshimu Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 19 hours ago, Fasthenk65 said: Stock 2 Xtreme small frame here, only change is 14 PD hammer spring, ignites all but the hardest primers. CCI? What’s the DA at? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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