Monovision, Presbyopia, Old Eyes...

[Ron Ankeny]

Long winded post ahead. I know the topic of old eyes has been just about beaten to death. Well, I guess I am going to beat this dead horse one more time.

I shot with a "soft sight picture" until I just couldn't see the front sight for beans. I then visisted my eye doctor after searching these forum and after doing a lot of research. Here's what we came up with. I have a touch of double vision and my eyes don't converge on one spot very well. The old brain will work in conjunction with the eyes to alleviate "double vision" but the eyeballs are more comfortable with a little help from prisms. So, I have prisms for horizontal double vision split between lenses, and prisms for vertical double vision split between both lenses. I have that set up in all of my glasses starting a couple of months ago. In my shooting glasses, I not only have the prisms, but I also have the right lens set for near (the front sight) and the left lens set for distance. I haven't seen the front sight so clearly for many years. I can now wear the monovision glasses for an extended period without too much fatigue.

So, here I am two months later with a lot of dry fire and thousands of rounds sent down range. The upside is worth noting. I can see the front sight very clearly, I am calling the shots with precision (scary precision) and I can shoot some killer groups. I also do fairly well on widely spaced targets that are difficult such as Steel Challenge where I look at the next target, then look directly at the front sight for one shot (ok sometimes two shots).

On the downside, I am having some problems at the 8-12 yard distances. For instance, if I set half a dozen poppers edge to edge at 10 yards and go into warp drive, I see nothing but an ocean of white and sometimes I see multiple rear sights. I can no longer look at the targets and see the sights peripherally, and the faster I snap my eyes from sights to target then back the more apt I am to split my focus between the two. The result is running the gun dry with targets still standing. I get so confused I can't tell which target I hit and which one I am acquiring next. At Area 1 I ran the gun dry 3 times on little steel gardens. Thankfully, I did a controlled restart and got the last target down with the last shot each time, but I still sucked.

Sam and John have suggested I just ditch the glasses, switch to an Open gun, and never look back. They are tired of me whining and they hate to see me suck canal water on the trigger. I just switched from Open to single stacks because of arthritis, but I know it is possible to have a soft shooting Open blaster so going to a dot is a solution. It's going to be hard to say goodbye forever to all if the iron sighted divisions.

The other option is to stop bitching, get off my butt, and send another 20,000 rounds downrange, then revisit the issue. I am willing to gut it out, but I have a nagging question that won't go away. Without sounding defeatist and negative, is it possible to ever restore what I once had as far as speed. That is, once a shooter's vision is in the toilet, is he/she being delusional thinking he/she can get back on track? What say you folks? Can a person perform well enough to be competitive at the Master level if they must, by necessity, look directly at the front sight while remaining visually patient enough to see the sight clearly? No more looking through the gun to confirm the index. Just good old front sight press type of shooting.

[Stony Lane]

You might try www.decot.com

Scroll down the right side and click on the article, "Old Pistol Shooters Don't Give Up They Just Lose - Their Sights"

This might help you with a solution.

[eric nielsen]

That's a very complicated vision problem - likely a prescription will only clarify certain things at certain distances.

I work in optics but it's hard for me to relate because my vision is 20/20 & I can read print 5" in front of my face [for now]. In spite of that I still get about a 20-25% performance increase in Open vs shooting Limited.

Just a guess but I think you'll be happier with a Red Dot. Especially at tournaments where the shots and the positions can get *challenging* to say the least.

[ChuckS]

Ron,

I am near-sighted, have astigmatisim, prism and some minor damage in my dominate eye cornea. Switched to a dot. Shooting's fun again! The matches at Norco have been taking a World Shoot prep slant so there have been some long shots from awkward positions at those silly classic targets. No big deal with a dot!

Now all we need to do is find a gun accessory that makes us run faster!

Later,

Chuck

PS: It looks like you will be circling "Senior" soon. Welcome to the club!

[Luiz Francisco Ramos]

I have the same problem.

Chage to OPEN.

Extrange in the begining.

But now...

I aks myself why I didn´t shoot OPEN early ??

It´s very very very FUN, Modern, fast and anything else.

What a grat time I lost with that Limited Iron sights ?!!!

Go OPEN!

Ramos

[Ron Ankeny]

Switched to a dot. Shooting's fun again!

After the Area 1 shoot my buddy Sam came right out and told me I didn't look like I was having fun anymore and I could be more competitive with a dot. Maybe it's time to let the irons go. I'll give the monovision until fall and another 5-10K then it's Dot City here I come. I'll be missing faster than ever come spring.

[Loves2Shoot]

I shoot with one eye because I have no eye dominance, and I just accept that when I shoot irons it is one eye and it seems to work ok. That being said, there is just something about the speed you can achieve once you know how to shoot and go back to the dot. It is just fun, and I don't have to switch between glasses.

Whatever you do I'm sure you'll work it out. DVC

[Merlin Orr]

Reading and thinking... Reading and thinking... Me too Ron. I can see a dot without my 1.25 readers.....

[EricW]

Ron,

Nobody will think less of you for shooting Open. That's why it's there. My eyes are starting to go too. My guess is that I'll be an open gunner before too long whether I like it or not.

I like the dot! I got to hose at 25 yards and in yesterday with my Holo topped AR. What a hoot! And you, you lucky dog, you'll get to do that every match!

Whee!

[Al Capizzo]

I'm in line with the other replies. I've shot nothin' but iron site for 20 years of USPSA, but ... now I'm 20+ years older. My vision isn't really terrible yet, but at last months A4 I noticed the Open shooters were having more fun than I was! I'm going to start shooting Open right after the Nationals.

Al

[Rikarin]

Maaaan. Don't tempt me! I am trying to be firm sticking with production gun. Oh but open gun would be so nice... I don't have to be focusing on 14 inches away and open up myself to embrace all the targets out there.

My plan is to stick to iron-sight as long as my eyes allow and then go to open. Do you think this would backfire? I feel like once I shoot open, I would never go back to iron-sights. Most of the girls I know shoot open because its less of disadvantage too.

[geezer-lock]

I don’t have nearly the problems you have Ron but I think a dot is in my future. I have resisted the things since I saw the first one in 198?. They just don’t belong on a side arm. I tried an open Glock recently with a DR sitting low on the slide and that at least looks more like a part of the gun, as opposed to say, a Carver mount.

I figure that if I’m talking about it won’t be long before I make the jump. I just wish there was an in-between-class without comps and high-caps that would allow the optics for the lame, the halt and the blind.

I left my .45’s behind because it was painful to shoot all day. I got over that, I expect I will get over the sight thing too.

See you in open.

David C

[Flexmoney]

So, here I am two months later with a lot of dry fire and thousands of rounds sent down range. The upside is worth noting. I can see the front sight very clearly, I am calling the shots with precision (scary precision) and I can shoot some killer groups. I also do fairly well on widely spaced targets that are difficult such as Steel Challenge where I look at the next target, then look directly at the front sight for one shot (ok sometimes two shots).

Sounds good so far.

On the downside, I am having some problems at the 8-12 yard distances. For instance, if I set half a dozen poppers edge to edge at 10 yards and go into warp drive,

You might explore this some. The going into "warp drive" might be the real issue? It sure doesn't sound like the vision is driving the shooting at that point?

I see nothing but an ocean of white and sometimes I see multiple rear sights.

On closely spaced target arrays at medium distance, I take it? It sounds like your "front sight eye" is trying to see something other than the front sight?

I can no longer look at the targets and see the sights peripherally,

Could this be because of the focus distance of the different lenses?

...and the faster I snap my eyes from sights to target then back the more apt I am to split my focus between the two.

That might be a visual patience issue that will need re-learned? Also, you may have to train your eyes to see in a different way than what they are used to. You are asking the eye muscles to work in a new way, I think. (That bead exercise is around here somewhere.)

The result is running the gun dry with targets still standing. I get so confused I can't tell which target I hit and which one I am acquiring next. At Area 1 I ran the gun dry 3 times on little steel gardens. Thankfully, I did a controlled restart and got the last target down with the last shot each time, but I still sucked.

How about a controlled start, instead of a RE-start??

The other option is to stop bitching, get off my butt, and send another 20,000 rounds downrange, then revisit the issue. I am willing to gut it out, but I have a nagging question that won't go away. Without sounding defeatist and negative, is it possible to ever restore what I once had as far as speed. That is, once a shooter's vision is in the toilet, is he/she being delusional thinking he/she can get back on track? What say you folks? Can a person perform well enough to be competitive at the Master level if they must, by necessity, look directly at the front sight while remaining visually patient enough to see the sight clearly? No more looking through the gun to confirm the index. Just good old front sight press type of shooting.

I do my some of my best work with the serrations of my front sight in razor sharp focus...no matter the distance.

Give it some time. Expand the awareness (leave the judging of the shooting out, just observe). Let us know how it goes.

[Ron Ankeny]

Flex:

I have been doing a lot of shooting lately. I have all summer to work this out (June, July, and August are three great reasons to teach), but my ammo budget is taking one hell of a beating. I am giving this monovision gig a fair try. I spoke to Bud Bond (as in the revolver guru Bud Bond) about monovision. He flat told me a couple of months and a few thousand rounds just isn't enough time. Period, end of conversation. I never have been real keen on the concept of delayed gratification.

You are right, I am asking my eyes to perform a task that is considerably different than before. I am getting there slowly but surely. I ran some plate racks today. I am seeing pretty good and cleaning the rack consistently at 15 yards in 3.8 to 4 seconds. If I go any faster at all, I have one of the most incredible visual train wrecks. There is a big bright light at the end of the tunnel. For the first time, I feel like I will probably be able to shoot from Box A as well as before. Of course, I still need to stop practicing my static shooting at the expense of the skills that win a field course, lol. I am kind of thinking vision wasn't the only (maybe not even the primary) reason for sucking at Area 1.

PS

I still have the hankering for a foo-foo blaster. Sam tells as well as I shoot in "stand and deliver mode" with an Open blaster, I would rock if I ever "figure out how to shoot a field course". That's what I like about Sam, he can tell you how good you are, and how there is still incredible room for improvement, all in the same breath. Kind of like the time he told me, "Oh man, you can miss faster than anyone I know."

[wsimpso1]

It seems like you are working too hard at a glasses solution. If putting the images from both eyes together is so hard, just don't put them together.

I have had cataract syrgery, so my eyes are focused wherever the lenses take me. I also have some cross dominance problems. My compromise is aiming eye corrected for front sight, non-aiming eye corrected for distance, and then a tape spot on the non-aiming eye just where it should be to block the sights. You can still put in prism, but you will not need any bifocal or progressive if these are purely shooting glasses. That made for cheap lenses, so some iteration to get the correction just right for shooting was Ok too. It works great, even with the shotgun or rifle.

I have found that I have trained myself to not notice the image from the left eye (by learning to mentally focus on the shooting eye) and have omitted the tape.

I like shooting L-10 and CDP, so I am glad that this worked out.

Good Luck,

Billski

[spd522]

I have had trouble focusing on iron sights since about age 44. I was very nearsighted and had astigmatism in my dominant right eye. Glasses/contacs got me to 20/20 but I still had the front sight focus problem.

Since I always wore contacs while shooting, I had my eye Dr. set me up with a pair of shooting glasses. I picked the frame and color lens I wanted and he found the appropriate correction for my right lens so I could focus on the front sight. It turned out to be a .50 magnification. .75 was a bit clearer but I started having depth perception issues with the difference in my eyes. The left lens had no power correction to it- just a tinted lens.

In May of this year, I got out the checkbook and had Lasik correction done. My 20/600 (Yes, that's right) is now 20/40 uncorrected. I am going in for a second tweaking that should have me at 20/20 uncorrected. For the time being, I am wearing some weak contacs to do the fine tuning until the surgery.

Right now, with my contacs, I have 20/20 and can also see the front sight without needing my special glasses. They do improve the front sight if I wear them, but it is quite good without them and I wouldn't have a problem shooting a match. I can also read a newpaper without reading glasses for the first time in 6 years. I see better now than I can ever remember and I started wearing glasses at age 11. I am 51 now.

Lasik may not be the answer for you but it sure was worth it for me.

[Ken_Bird]

Maaaan. Don't tempt me! I am trying to be firm sticking with production gun. Oh but open gun would be so nice... I don't have to be focusing on 14 inches away and open up myself to embrace all the targets out there.

My plan is to stick to iron-sight as long as my eyes allow and then go to open. Do you think this would backfire? I feel like once I shoot open, I would never go back to iron-sights. Most of the girls I know shoot open because its less of disadvantage too.