PCC Starting Position Variations?

[teros135]

54 minutes ago, Hammer002 said:

 

 

So how about all you smart guys explain this recent post by Max Michel. Guess he doesn't know what he's talking about either, maybe he should consult with some of you geniuses.

https://m.facebook.com/maxmichel.us/?__tn__=C-R

 

"The results are final from the OK Sectional and I was able to not only take home the win in the Carry Optics Division but also the Overall Championship as well! This is the 2nd time this year at a State level match that I was able to take home the overall title beating out the race guns with my Sig Sauer #p320rx. I also managed to be the fastest shooter overall while shooting nearly 94% of the available points. I'm pretty excited about that as shooing minor power factor, the points down add up quickly. Another big thank you to my family and sponsors for allowing me to do what I love! Up next... LA Gator Classic this weekend. #whenitcounts #SIGlife #MYP320 Sig Sauer Electro-Optics HIVIZ Shooting Systems Hogue Inc Cabela's Action Target Otis Technology Laser Shot Brazen Sports .  

 

Please pay attention.  USPSA doesn't recognize HOA across Divisions (although an individual  match can award a "match winner" if they want).  

 

Looks like somebody is puffing his sponsors by bragging about beating a couple of GMs who aren't anywhere near his level.  His call, I guess.

Edited October 26, 2017 by teros135

[Hammer002]

3 minutes ago, ChuckS said:

Can someone find the overall scores for the OK Sectional? Here's the link: https://www.uspsa.org/uspsa-display-match-results-detail.php?indx=23617

 

https://practiscore.com/results/new/45406

[Hammer002]

44 minutes ago, teros135 said:

 

Please pay attention.  USPSA doesn't recognize HOA across Divisions (although an individual  match can award a "match winner" if they want).  

 

Max seems to be puffing his sponsors by bragging about beating a couple of GMs who aren't anywhere near his level.  His call, I guess.

So now you, a nobody, is discounting one of the greatest shooters in the modern sport?  And I'm the one somehow not paying attention?  Pure entertainment, man.  Lol

 

listen, here's the point - the original point - you can't design a stage with divisions having such a completely different starting position that it becomes a completely different stage, even though they are supposedly competing only as a division.  And the loose point referenced as to HOA was just to put that point into perspective, yes most matches don't give a trophy for it, but it is still highly recognized and paid attention to by everyone as it was originally meant to be by Cooper himself.  The idea was always to see how a particular scenario/stage can be accomplished, given different equipment and shooters compared against each other to determine an outcome.  That idea is lost when different people are made to start in completely different ways or otherwise have such radical differences they can no longer be compared as a whole, which absolutely was the original idea of the entire sport.  PCC start with stock on belt is fair, having them start 50 yards from where everyone else makes it a different scenario altogether.  THAT was the point.  But, in true Internet forum fashion, some people ran in a tangent from my point being correct.  Now one of the biggest names in the sport has validated my reference that was ironically attempted to be used in discrediting my original point.  Get over it, other people get to be right or make a point every once in a while too.

Edited October 26, 2017 by Hammer002

[teros135]

Braggarts are so boring...

[Hammer002]

10 minutes ago, teros135 said:

Braggarts are so boring...

 

Is that a millennial snowflake term?  I don't even know what you called me.  Lmao.

 

edit:. So I learned a new word.  So you were taking a shot at Max?!?!  Oh that's rich.

Edited October 26, 2017 by Hammer002

[teros135]

Upon reflection, I got caught up in the trolling.  It's been a long day.  Apologies.  There has indeed been some good discussion, and I'll stay out until the thread becomes informative again.  

[Sarge]

45 minutes ago, teros135 said:

Upon reflection, I got caught up in the trolling.  It's been a long day.  Apologies.  There has indeed been some good discussion, and I'll stay out until the thread becomes informative again.  

It happens. I block them as soon as they start running their mouths these days.

[Shadyscott999]

On 10/25/2017 at 9:05 PM, Hammer002 said:

So now you, a nobody, is discounting one of the greatest shooters in the modern sport?  And I'm the one somehow not paying attention?  Pure entertainment, man.  Lol

 

listen, here's the point - the original point - you can't design a stage with divisions having such a completely different starting position that it becomes a completely different stage, even though they are supposedly competing only as a division.  And the loose point referenced as to HOA was just to put that point into perspective, yes most matches don't give a trophy for it, but it is still highly recognized and paid attention to by everyone as it was originally meant to be by Cooper himself.  The idea was always to see how a particular scenario/stage can be accomplished, given different equipment and shooters compared against each other to determine an outcome.  That idea is lost when different people are made to start in completely different ways or otherwise have such radical differences they can no longer be compared as a whole, which absolutely was the original idea of the entire sport.  PCC start with stock on belt is fair, having them start 50 yards from where everyone else makes it a different scenario altogether.  THAT was the point.  But, in true Internet forum fashion, some people ran in a tangent from my point being correct.  Now one of the biggest names in the sport has validated my reference that was ironically attempted to be used in discrediting my original point.  Get over it, other people get to be right or make a point every once in a while too.

 

So you are evoking Max's name as the ultimate rules authority?  LOL.  Just because he was bragging about beating the field means exactly...  nothing.  And the crap about Cooper, there was only one division when cooper was shooting so once again, your rant means...  nothing.  HOA is not official in USPSA.  It wasn't even available until Practiscore came into common usage about a year and a half ago not to mention the combined results are skewed and inaccurate.  So once again your point means...  nothing.  
Don't be surprised if "combined" goes away in the results eventually on Practiscore.  Just like you don't have combined results at an NHRA drag race.  ProStock Doesn't race Top Fuel.  

[2MoreChains]

Problem with low-ready is there are many different opinions about what that means to different people.  Putting a mark on the stage somewhere, be it on a wall, prop, barrel that people have to have the muzzle pointed at whenever requiring "low-ready" seems like a good solution.  We did that for stages at last year's Area 1 when doing the final setup.  Not sure what they did at Optic Nats since I wasn't there.  

 

The last WSB I wrote for this scenario was: "Stock on shoulder, muzzle pointed at mark on barrel" with no mention of the term "low-ready".  Depending on the stage, may want to have two marks if there are a couple different start locations on the stage.  

 

Other start positions such as stock on belt, muzzle point downrange is fine for the most part IMO.  As is starting with the gun on a table.  It just behooves the WSB writer to clearly state what they want and don't leave the shooter guessing or assuming something that wasn't intended.  

 

[motosapiens]

On 10/25/2017 at 7:05 PM, Hammer002 said:

listen, here's the point - the original point - you can't design a stage with divisions having such a completely different starting position that it becomes a completely different stage,

 

yes you can.

 

you can also design guns and divisions so that a stage becomes a completely different stage. for sure, shooting singlestack vs limited vs open vs dorky rifles will often result in a completely different stage. Not a bad thing. Stop whining.

[motosapiens]

On 10/25/2017 at 7:05 PM, Hammer002 said:

 Now one of the biggest names in the sport has validated my reference

 

You talking about the same guy that knowing accepted an incorrect time (proved on video) at a major match? Not sure that's the kind of validation I'd be looking for.

[Sarge]

Now this thread is going somewhere! 

[Flatland Shooter]

Got my popcorn.  Please proceed.

[teros135]

It's interesting, though, looking at the "combined" results for the 2017 Optics Nats in Practiscore.  The CO winner (who surely worked hard and earned the win) would have been 20th overall (if Combined), at 86.7% of the "HOA"winner.  The top 19 were 16 Open and 3 PCC.  Same COFs, standard PCC start positions?  It was Nats, with the best around, so perhaps a fairer comparison.