Clay's For .40

[high ground]

I bought some Clay's (regular) for my Glock 35. The only reloading manual in the store was the Sierra manual. It had max load at 5.0 gr @ 1000fps. So I thought I was good to go. The Hodgdon manual I have home lists a max load of 3.5 gr at less than 900 fps. I want to be able to make major pf, but don't know if it's safe to go that high. Any one here use Clay's at about 4.5 gr to get about 950 fps? Should I just use the Clay's for minor and get Universal Clay's for major? I wanted a cleaner powder than the Tightgroup I was using. I didn't see Clay's listed in the Maas load list.

[high ground]

Shooting 180 grain Berry's, by the way.

Also, I was trying to get away with using the same powder for major and minor since it's cheaper to buy bulk.

[Merlin Orr]

Try a search using - clays and major

Lots of info.

In a Glock - Not! IMHO

[Squishy]

I have been loading clays in my 40 S V for over 12 years.( Old major and the new major). I use 200 gr zero fmj bullets. Works great . Very clean burning . Accurate. NO WAY try to load major with clays in a glock.

[Harmon]

youll get more headaches using clays than its worth..at major power

now it does make a super sweet steel load with various bullets.

[Carlos]

straight Clays information for .40 IS on the Jeff Maass website: it under the section: "WARNING!!! DO NOT USE CLAYS FOR MAJOR .40!!!!!!!!!!!"

Now, I know that the warning re=printed below reference OLD major and that some loads that are TOO LONG for a glock are now, once again being used at the present time since the reduction to 165. And for Minor - Clays is great.

But Major .40 in short Glock ammo?!?!? My sincere advice to you is: Don't even think about it. Here is the warning from Jeff Maass' website:

"SPECIAL .40 S&W LOADING SAFETY NOTES:

Since I began gathering data for the .40S&W, I have heard numerous stories of people having guns blow up due to inappropriate loads or failure to heed

good load development practice. Interestingly, more people have reported catastrophic failures to me in this caliber than in the “pocket-rocket” 9x21! All

IPSC loads in the .40S&W are high-pressure loads, and generally all of the loads listed below are at or near to maximum pressures: this is not

your momma’s .45ACP! I don’t recommend that an inexperienced reloader attempt to load .40S&W for IPSC Major.

Powder Choices

When it comes to selecting a powder to use in loading a new caliber, reloaders tend to try to use whatever powder they have on hand or which they have

traditionally used for other calibers. In gathering these loads, I received numerous reports that the .40S&W is dangerously unpredictable when loaded

to IPSC Major velocities with fast-burning powders and heavy bullets. These reports have come from enough independent sources that I have taken

them to heart, and I have omitted from this list any load using the fastest powders (generally, those faster than VihtaVuori N320).

In particular, you are urged to avoid any load using Hodgdon CLAYS for IPSC-velocity .40S&W loads. Although many of the ‘Super Squad’ shooters

are using Clays, Hodgdon’s loading data shows a maximum IPSC power factor of 153 for CLAYS. Although it is possible to load to a power factor of 175

using CLAYS, especially in guns that allow a cartridge overall length of 1.200” and greater, there are FAR SAFER options available with the medium-

and slower burning powders. For the same reasons, Accurate Arms #2, while used by some IPSC shooters, is not a recommended choice.

A better choice? Titegroup.

[kevin c]

Let me add to the chorus.

The gun I blew up in load development was through a novice's inexperience. I loaded a 200 grain jacketed bullet over Clays at SAAMI OAL of 1.135" for the 40 S&W, using a charge that was meant for a fully supported barrel at 1.200" OAL. The gun was not a Glock, but a Taurus that, like the Glock and Beretta pistols, does not have a fully supported chamber. I was working with partial information, long before I ever found these forums and the wiser heads and experience available here.

Hodgdon's max load in Clays with a 180 at factory OAL is a nice soft load for .40 minor (production or steel), but there are better and safer powders to use at 170 PF.

[G17raider]

Here's a thread on Clays with 40s: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=23792

[Harmon]

i will add that 3.6 grains of clays and a 185 precision bullet does make major at 166.7 pf out of a KKM barreled glock model 22.(no extra case expansion, no unusual pressure signs)

federal Small mag pistol primer was used.

loaded to 1.1450"

The reason i dont use it(or test any further) is because its not all that much softer, cleaner or better in any way than titegroup with the same bullet. and with titegroup its a 2 inch gun at 25 yards...with clays im lucky if it will keep em in the A zone. some guns will shoot clays, mine doesnt!

[GuildSF4]

Universal Clays or Titegroup would be a better choice. Either one can be used for major or minor loads, Universal is cleaner. V V 320 is also a good powder, but requires more care. IMHO

[Derek45]

  I didn't see Clay's listed in the Maas load list.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

cut & pasted from Maas's load data page

"In particular, you are urged to avoid any load using Hodgdon CLAYS for IPSC-velocity .40S&W loads. Although many of the ‘Super Squad’ shooters are using Clays, Hodgdon’s loading data shows a maximum IPSC power factor of 153 for CLAYS. Although it is possible to load to a power factor of 175 using CLAYS, especially in guns that allow a cartridge overall length of 1.200” and greater, there are FAR SAFER options available with the medium- and slower burning powders. For the same reasons, Accurate Arms #2, while used by some IPSC shooters, is not a recommended choice. "

[eric nielsen]

NO

[Flexmoney]

I wanted a cleaner powder than the Tightgroup I was using. 

I run TG for a few thousand rounds between cleanings. That little bit of dusting that show up at the end of the muzzle...easy enough to just wipe that down if it is bothersome.

TG and 180 for Major and Minor.

[EricW]

The amount of margin for error you have with major loads using clays:

[scooterj]

"a picture says 1000 words" has never been truer

[Carlos]

-a pound of straight Clays: $15

-advantage gained over Titegroup: Zero dollars

-your RO's health & your peace of mind: Priceless

-not to mention that the damage in the photo above seems to add up to about $300 for a new slide & $200 for Schuemann barrel - plus the cost of having a gunsmith build it assuming the frame's salvageable. Major .40 w/ Clays in a Glock is really, really asking for trouble. Please reconsider using it. Regards,

D.

[EricW]

$1700 in damage - almost a year's worth of ammo. Hard to believe that the recoil reduction would have been more significant than the expertise gained in launching 20,000 rounds down range.

[high ground]

Thanks for the responses. Definitely seems like a nono to me. I just finished off my can of tightgroup, which worked great, but was hoping for something cleaner.

[gm iprod]

Also to add to the chorus.

Get more TightGroup.

I did a little research and found no loads with any powder significantly faster than TG that got anywhere close to Major with any weight projectile in a 1.150" loading (ie for Glock, Beretta, Taurus etc etc etc). In fact I could find only one load that was used in a fully supported barrel at 1.250" with a 200gr and I am not going to tell where.

I can see no reason to do what you are trying.

I know of plenty of guys who use VV N320 and TG and have no problems (yes I know VV n320 is a little quicker than TG, but not by much.) These seem to be the way to go and I have used both myself, but not at major in an unsupported gun.

You can get major in a Glock35 with Universal Clays, but I suspect the pressure is a little higher than I like.

Keep a sharp eye on case bulges, and check case head expansion regularly (thats the bit just forward of the rim). This is a sure sign that you are pushing it.

PS Do a search, flex posted some lovely pictures of a dead custom S_I that used a few too many hot ones. This cost the guy a complete gun ($3000+), and a quick count was taken of fingers.

[gm iprod]

Found them.