igolfat8 Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 Let's say you have a really nice 9mm 2011 but you want it to shoot mid minor 130-150 PF loads much flatter, i.e. Less muzzle flip. There are no rules for the games you are shooting. How would you build it to accomplish the goals. Please don't respond by you can't do it without shooting major loads. I know it can be done because I shoot 135 PF loads in my comped G34 and its shoots really flat. I can't understand why I can't do the same with this 2011. Is it due to the weight of the gun? It's got a SS PT grip, full dust cover, PT frame and lightened slide. I put a KKM threaded bull barrel in it with a EGW Ti comp but it still doesn't shoot very flat. I know, bump in the load and make more gas. What else can be done to the gun without upping the load? Remember, I am asking YOU how to build it. Thx... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
js1130146 Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 A heavier gun should mean less muzzle flip. You could try a different (slower) powder and/or lighter bullets and see if that helps any. What's your current load? You can lighten the heck out of the slide even more. Less reciprocating mass means less flip. The slides on steel challenge guns are crazy light. You can also tweak the weight of the recoil spring and/or mainspring. Both have an effect on slide speed along with the radius of the firing pin stop. You should be able to tune the feel of your gun and reduce muzzle flip with a combination of the above. The simplest way to go about it though, is to increase grip strength and see if you can improve on your grip in any way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ano Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 shooting minor tends to be like 22LR vs the major loads. heavy guns, comps, grips helps for sure, and correct slide weight and springs. if you run a #10 with a heavy slide its gonna be.. meeh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EEH Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 I have a custom 6" sight tracker Sti frame caspian slide works fantastic.. No I didn't build it..run 10# spring 130pf..oh yea the slide also has been lightened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abb1 Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 Shooting minor you can do with any gun. keep in mind that with less pressures, you have less recoil, less slide velocity and would need lighter recoil springs. In the old days, we used to always shoot minor (150 pf) for practice and major for matches. Now there is no more need as we have better powders for major loads. The bonus with shooting minor is that the gun will last forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzt Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 I'm in the process of building a gun for exactly that purpose. JEM frame and slide, Evo grip, Trubore barrel with custom comp cuts and EGW internals. Slide will be lightened to 10 oz. I'm debating whether or not to have the barrel fluted to reduce mass. This will be a dedicated Steel Challenge gun, although I might try it for USPSA Open minor just for fun. I might be interesting to see how much difference there is in time and score between that any my major guns. I don't plan any poppels initially, but will put them in if necessary. I plan to shoot 115gr bullets, so I should have enough powder to generate gas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igolfat8 Posted July 7, 2017 Author Share Posted July 7, 2017 9 hours ago, js1130146 said: You could try a different (slower) powder and/or lighter bullets and see if that helps any. What's your current load? The simplest way to go about it though, is to increase grip strength and see if you can improve on your grip in any way. My grip strength is pretty darn good, Bob Vogel-esque if you will. I've been shooting for a lot of years and have worked hard on grip strength and gun control. My current loads for steel challenge is: 95gr coated bullet over 4.6 TG, 1.025" OAL, 123 PF My falling steel / 3 Gun load is: 120gr coated bullet over 4.2 WSF, 1.060" OAL, 131 PF Both loads shoot really flat out of my comp't G34 but out of the 2011, not so much. I'll compare slide weights of the two pistols. I've wondered if the lighter weight Glock is actually easier to control due to the weight. The 2011 is certainly heavier of the two but I wonder if the added weight really does help? Thanks for the suggestions so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
js1130146 Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 (edited) How many baffles and ports are there in the two comps? Odds are what is best for the glock isnt ideal for the 2011. That could be part of the reason they act different. You may have to work up a new load for the 2011 to find what is best for that setup. My suggestion would be to try a slower powder in the 2011 and play with the spring weights, but I'm certainly no expert. Edited July 7, 2017 by js1130146 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majja Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 I use to shoot minor for practice and steel in my old Witness. I shot a 115's and they were as flat as flat and as soft as butter. I would try moving to a slower powder like Vit 3n38 or AA7 and then play with the springs. Also make sure your grip is nice and high up on the gun. Different comp designs require different gas pressures to be effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcs Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 12 hours ago, igolfat8 said: Let's say you have a really nice 9mm 2011 but you want it to shoot mid minor 130-150 PF loads much flatter, i.e. Less muzzle flip. There are no rules for the games you are shooting. How would you build it to accomplish the goals. Please don't respond by you can't do it without shooting major loads. I know it can be done because I shoot 135 PF loads in my comped G34 and its shoots really flat. I can't understand why I can't do the same with this 2011. Is it due to the weight of the gun? It's got a SS PT grip, full dust cover, PT frame and lightened slide. I put a KKM threaded bull barrel in it with a EGW Ti comp but it still doesn't shoot very flat. I know, bump in the load and make more gas. What else can be done to the gun without upping the load? Remember, I am asking YOU how to build it. Thx... Reduce the recoil spring. Having said that, comparing a 2011 open gun to comped G34 does not work. Shooting flat has many variables. You can take a very flat shooting steel open gun and hand it to a novice and watch-no so flat. Grip has a lot to do with flatness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caspian guy Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 If i was building a dedicated minor open gun. I would want the lightest slide possible (in the 10 oz range or lighter.) I would want a bushing barrel/coned comp. I would want no more than a 7 to 8 lb recoil spring. I'd want a generously beveled firing point stop. A long firing pin. The lightest mainspring i could get to work reliably (talking a federal primer only kinda deal) I'd probably want a thumb shield to keep my fingers off the slide. Probably want the gun stroked as well for reliability (more tolerance for the mags to get the rounds up in time among other things) You'd have to keep on top of keeping all the springs changed and the gun very clean. Then I'd start with 90 to 95 grain bullets and work up a load to get the gun to track well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igolfat8 Posted July 7, 2017 Author Share Posted July 7, 2017 3 hours ago, js1130146 said: How many baffles and ports are there in the two comps? Odds are what is best for the glock isnt ideal for the 2011. That could be part of the reason they act different. You may have to work up a new load for the 2011 to find what is best for that setup. My suggestion would be to try a slower powder in the 2011 and play with the spring weights, but I'm certainly no expert. Glock34 - Carver 4 top ports, 6 side ports (3/side) 2011 - Bedel Max Ti, 3 top ports, no side ports. https://www.shootersconnectionstore.com/GetImage.ashx?Path=~%2fAssets%2fProductImages%2fBCMC.jpg&maintainAspectRatio=true I've used AC, HS6, Unique and found that WSF was softest recoil with enough gas to work the comp on the G34. Tried those powders and more on the 2011 with little success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
js1130146 Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 1 hour ago, igolfat8 said: Glock34 - Carver 4 top ports, 6 side ports (3/side) 2011 - Bedel Max Ti, 3 top ports, no side ports. https://www.shootersconnectionstore.com/GetImage.ashx?Path=~%2fAssets%2fProductImages%2fBCMC.jpg&maintainAspectRatio=true I've used AC, HS6, Unique and found that WSF was softest recoil with enough gas to work the comp on the G34. Tried those powders and more on the 2011 with little success. What are your recoil spring and mainspring weights on the 2011? What does the profile of your firing pin stop look like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igolfat8 Posted July 7, 2017 Author Share Posted July 7, 2017 FP stop plate is beveled / ramped, from the smith who built it. Recoil spring is 10# and main is 17# in stock (limited) mode. I went down to a 7# when the comped barrel was on it. and brass was falling about 12" to my right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
js1130146 Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, igolfat8 said: FP stop plate is beveled / ramped, from the smith who built it. Recoil spring is 10# and main is 17# in stock (limited) mode. I went down to a 7# when the comped barrel was on it. and brass was falling about 12" to my right Have you tried other spring weights in it? Both standard and variable weight? It sounds like the gun is set up well, it's boiling down to load development. That or making some major changes to how the gun is set up. Edited July 7, 2017 by js1130146 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzt Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 If you cannot get it to shoot flat with your current setup, add poppel holes. I'd start with one 3/16" poppel. That should do it. If not, go to two. I have two Open guns with almost identical comps on them. My main gun has two 3/16" poppels and shoots flatter than my backup gun. The main gun will not run minor loads under 155PF. My backup gun uses a standard barrel and a coned comp. Even though the slide is a touch heavier than the 10 oz on my main gun, it will handle 145-150PF well. Slide to frame fit is a little looser and the reciprocating mass is less. That's why I'm considering fluting the bull barrel to get the weight down closer to a standard, coned comp setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aircooled6racer Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 Hello: Lighter slide and a shorter slide also. Kinda like the shorter barrels in this pic. Longer barrels are TruBor blanks. Try some HS-6 with those 95 grain bullets at around 150PF. It will shoot softer than the Tite Group. Thanks, Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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