DVD Authoring Tips

[George]

I just came across an article in a pro video user gazette about why DVD's made at home have trouble on certain players. It's all stuff I have said elsewhere, but well presented in one article instead of a dozen posts in half a dozen forums.

I thought it might be very helpful in understanding "why" when Aunt Hilda says the home movie DVD you gave her won't play at all, or loses audio sync, or hiccups all the time on her COSTCO special DVD player (that you got her for Christmas).

BTW, this is primarily intended for production pro's and high end work, but still applies no matter how, or why you put video on optical discs.

For the DVD author outputting primarily to recordable media (DVD-R (+R), the cheap fifteen-dollar DVD player is more than a nuisance - it's a scourge.

Everywhere we look we find unsuspecting folks snapping up these "bargain" machines. Sure, the boxes are versatile: Most play PAL as well as NTSC titles; most are region-free - and almost all are subject to poor playback of DVD-R (+R) discs.

Out-of-sync playback is the hallmark of these el cheapo units; the poor performance being invariably attributed by most viewers to a defective disc.

Of course these folks after having invested all of $15 do not even consider the player itself could be the culprit. Back goes the disc to the store or vender, and the DVD author ultimately takes the heat.

In theory, of course, if a disc is authored and encoded to the DVD specification and the player is designed and manufactured to the same spec, all will be fine in the promised land of DVD playback.

But when player manufacturers cut corners as they are inclined to do, we DVD authors start to shake in our Amaray cases. After all, there's only so much we can do to ensure our DVD-R and DVD+R titles perform satisfactorily on the lowest of the low-end players.

Keep in mind that the player is not a computer, and that fundamentally the unthinking box simply has to decode a single multiplexed stream. It doesn't need to understand or know about Photoshop files, WAV, AIFF streams or the difference between DVCPRO and DVCAM. DVD players were designed from the outset to be stupid, reliable - and most of all, dirt cheap.

The stupid DVD player has implications for DVD-R (+R) playback compatibility. First, the DVD-Video format requires that the player give priority to the video portion of the multiplexed stream. Only after the video stream is decoded can the player begin decoding (if necessary) the audio.

If the player through poor design or sloppy manufacturer fails to decode the video in a timely fashion, the audio is allowed to slip back. There is no time-code or locked audio in DVD Land. The player decodes the audio and subpictures (menu overlays and subtitles) when it gets around to it, and in cheapo players struggling with the vagaries of recordable media as it is, this could be a while.

So why do DVD players have trouble playing back burned i.e. non-replicated media? Lots of reasons, and here's where things get a bit complex. My theory is that most DVD-R (+R) discs actually have a slight warp in them; this warp being more apparent towards the outside of the disc which explains why erratic playback occurs most often in higher number Tracks, Titles, and Video Title Sets.

DVD authors and producers outputting to DVD-R (+R) should therefore stick to only top-grade name-brand media. The bargain basement stuff with lots of warp is widely available for mere pennies per disc but keep in mind the wretched stuff has already been likely rejected by the major manufacturers.

This DVD-R compatibility business is hard enough without the added complication of substandard media.

Here are a few more tips to improve the playback reliability of DVD-R (+R) discs in all DVD players - not just the cheap ones:

Burn discs slow - no higher than 2X Fast living and fast burning gets you to the finish line too soon. At 4X and 8X speeds, you're burning a deluge of unnecessary errors into the disc, errors which may not be fully correctable in players with poor correction circuitry.

Encode video no higher than 7.5 Mbps maximum bit rate. Due to the lower reflectivity of recordable media, high encode bit rates over 7.5 Mbps may impede some players' ability to satisfactorily decode multiplexed audio and video streams in real time.

Use Dolby Digital AC-3 - not PCM To facilitate playback of video at moderate to high bit-rates, the use of compressed audio, i.e. Dolby AC-3, is imperative to avoid player stutter or freezes. While AC-3 compression always entails some compromise in audio quality. the smaller file size and gain in player compatibility are usually worth it. Cheap DVD players often have trouble reading PCM audio from recordable media!

Avoid burning to the outside edge of the DVD-R (+R) disc Compatibility problems increase as a player's laser tracks outward from the hub of the disc. Maintaining 5% - 10% of free space on a DVD-R (or DVD+R) may reduce read-errors in this vulnerable edge region where "warp" often becomes a factor.

Consider replication instead of duplication

If you require more than fifty discs of a title, it may make more sense to replicate your DVD. A typical price for a minimum run in some markets is currently about $1000 - $1200 per thousand discs with a simple label and box. Replicated, i.e. pressed discs will always be significantly more compatible in more players than DVD-R (+R) media.

Regardless of authoring platform - I use Sonic Scenarist and Apple DVD Studio Pro - every DVD author faces the prospect of unreliable playback from DVD-R and DVD+R discs. This condition, already a factor in name-brand players, is exacerbated in the sub-par $15 boxes currently filling the market.

Not that we should eschew these cheap players completely. Bottom-end players can be useful for quality control by providing a reference to the lowest-common denominator.

One of these low-cost machines can offer invaluable insight into how your DVD-R (or DVD+R) will actually perform in the field. That's worth I'd say about $15 in itself.

BTW, BTW, I own two COSTCO specials and two Sony/Pioneer high end pro-sumer machines and discs I master for distribution are previewed on all 4 before I call it good to go for duplication/replication.

--

Regards,

[Mike H]

George,

any brand recommendations on desks, ridek (? on spelling off the top of my head) seems to get some ggod reviews for compatibility and quality.

I'm looking to burn some hi-8 videos to dvd, so any info would be greatly appreciated in an effort to avoid unnecessary coaster making

[George]

TDK, Sony and Maxell -R have proven out well "in my burners"

As long as it is first quality media and a well known/regarded brand, OK. But do actually inspect and see if the batch you are buying is really concentric, flat, etc... When I need media, I usually run down to Comp-USA, or Frye's and buy a single spindle of the TDK -R thay have, take it home and test it on a few burns. If it passes visual and burn Q/C, I go right back and buy a couple hundred bucks worth of the same bulk 50-100 count spindles so I have a large amount of one batch stock on hand (I inspect for batch #'s and handling damage before I buy it). I have never had a bad batch myself, but they are out there, even among top shelf mfgr's. Caveat Emptor.

I buy jewell cases online from www.uline.com and get full thickness top quality CD jewel cases. I do this because the slim jewel cases all seem to really grab the disks with their grip spindle and make you put a lot of flexing into the disc trying to remove them (the way most folks do). I use the better ones exclusively because they reduce disc distortion in handling over the slimline's everyone else seems to use with bulk discs.

+R can't/shouldn't be sent for Replication/Dupliction so why bother using for making compatible movie discs anyway.

The most important trick of them all after selecting top quality -R media (that has passed visual inspection and proven itself in your burner) is to burn at 1x, I repeat 1x. Slower burn = less errors, less errors = less math to do in cheap chips and that means better playback on El Cheapo Deluxe players with knock-off chipsets that can't keep up with all the error checking going on.

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Regards,

[Nik Habicht]

The most important trick of them all after selecting top quality -R media (that has passed visual inspection and proven itself in your burner) is to burn at 1x, I repeat 1x. Slower burn = less errors, less errors = less math to do in cheap chips and that means better playback on El Cheapo Deluxe players with knock-off chipsets that can't keep up with all the error checking going on.

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Regards,

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

FWIW, I've noticed when burning images and non image/movie files to DVD, that the same basic rules apply: leave some room on the disk and burn it on 1x.......

[shred]

The key phrase on buying blank media came from a guy I knows all there is to know about DVDs (he sits on the DVD forum that defined the spec). It goes something like this:

"The media manufacturers (there aren't many and they make disks for everybody) don't know the meaning of the word 'scrap'.  Everything they make gets sold to somebody.  Buy media from somebody with a good brand name that wants to keep it that way. "

[GuildSF4]

The key phrase on buying blank media came from a guy I knows all there is to know about DVDs (he sits on the DVD forum that defined the spec).  It goes something like this: 

"The media manufacturers (there aren't many and they make disks for everybody) don't know the meaning of the word 'scrap'.  Everything they make gets sold to somebody.  Buy media from somebody with a good brand name that wants to keep it that way. "

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So don't buy the cheap stuff at Fry's Electronics... right?

(There was an article in PC magazine about 2 years ago about this, no-name or cheap stuff = lots of problems/errors.) Probably the same thing for CD-R's.

[Thomas Moore]

i just had this issue this weekend after i taped the area 7 match. i have a brand new canon mini dv camcorder, new computer, new burner and sony disks. burned three disk and all of them had some sort of audio or tracking issue. then i remembered this thread and tried it one more time at 1x burning speed and what do ya know it worked!!!

i'm so happy now.

fwiw, i used pinnacle 9 for the editor and nero to burn the dvd files.

[Cameron]

I think you had trouble because your system can't write as fast as you can shoot!

[DJPoLo]

TDK, Sony and Maxell -R have proven out well "in my burners"

As long as it is first quality media and a well known/regarded brand, OK. But do actually inspect and see if the batch you are buying is really concentric, flat, etc... When I need media, I usually run down to Comp-USA, or Frye's and buy a single spindle of the TDK -R thay have, take it home and test it on a few burns. If it passes visual and burn Q/C, I go right back and buy a couple hundred bucks worth of the same bulk 50-100 count spindles so I have a large amount of one batch stock on hand (I inspect for batch #'s and handling damage before I buy it). I have never had a bad batch myself, but they are out there, even among top shelf mfgr's. Caveat Emptor.

Yes. Even among the Top Shelf Manufacturers.

I have a stack of unuseable Memorex DVD-R disks on my desk in front of me as I type this. This particular spindle had 6% unuseable media (fogged substrate, chips and bubbles).

-Chet

[Thomas Moore]

i found out what my issue was. after upgrading the firmware on my sony dvd burner and also upgrading the version of pinnacle studio from ver9 to ver9.4 i was able to burn at 4x without any problems.

i have a fantastic video of three local michigan shooters with titles and stage numbers. i might even add a sound track or two. i can't wait for the next video opportunatety.

[George]

i was able to burn at 4x without any problems

Just because a higher speed burn works for playback in a specific player, it does not mean that there isn't increased error checking going on. More error checking doesn't mean that it won't work, it just means that it might glitch more often and will probably play on fewer el-cheapo players without problems.

Just because it plays doesn't mean that there aren't errors under the hood ;-)

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Regards,

[benos]

G,

Do you think the slow burning requirement thing (for DVDs) will improve over time?

Is it more important to burn slowly on DVDs than on CDs?

My old Yamaha CD burner used to coaster out discs like there was no tomorrow, even crawling along at 8-12x. My new 52x LaCie burner seldoms coasters burn jobs - maybe 2 out of 200+ burns - and, the discs seem to play more reliably in a wider variety of CD players, even when always burning at 48 - 52x.

I know I'm absolutely insane, but, I've been using that same burner to burn movies at 8x. So far it's 100%, but I've only tested them on my player ($200 HK unit) and one cheapy Wallmart DVD/VHS player.

be

[shred]

Burner technology does get somewhat better over time.. Generally once they learn to turn the lasers on and off precisely enough, it's about as good as it gets, but... all the media has a type code on it. Among other things, that type code can be used by the burner to burn the disk to best effect. Newer burners understand the type codes of newer and more media.. then new media comes out and you need an updated burner for best results, and on and on...

[George]

Agreed, it does get better as time goes, but not in leaps and bounds. Yes, the burners of "today"are better than the ones from 4-6 months ago, but not by a whole lot, just incrementally. Other than dual layer capability, the newer ones aren't that much better.

Shred nailed the issue with pit sharpness and how important an accurate duty cycle is in the laser. The sharpness versus roundness in the pits is what accurate tracking with minimal error checking is all about. As long as we are burning pits (duplicating) versus pressing pits (replicating), then we will have to accept some rounding in the edge of the pits and therefore a certain level of inaccuracy.

There is no getting around the physical fact that as long as we are burning the pits, a slower speed will ALWAYS create sharper edges on the pits, no matter how much better it burns at faster speeds too.

Audio CD's deliver much slower data streams than video DVD's so you can really get away with murder there (and we do). In the long run, less than top speed always delivers a more accurate (less errors) product. It just depends on whether your player cares (yet).

--

Regards,

[mcoliver]

Okay, shifting a bit towards players, I'm kinda wondering. I have an older Pioneer and a new Philipps DVD players that cost close to $600 each. A friend has one of those china (or taiwan-made) players that cost all of $50. But his player can play all types of DVD's (pirated, original, burned, etc.) while mine only plays the originals and some of the pirated ones. Both are region-free btw.

I can't believe his $50 player has better lasers or chips than mine? What gives?

[George]

What gives is that the chipset/laser combo in the El Cheapo player is more recent, or has better firmware. It could be that the Phillips machine even though new, is an older design and laser implementation.

I like Sony and Toshiba (no shjt) players the best. Pioneer burner mechanisms seem to be the best choice on the other end of the operation.

Phillips players seem to have a bit of a bad rap in consumer circles, whereas, cheapo's like Apex brand seem to get better compatability ratings in most reviews I have perused.

--

Regards,

[shred]

What gives is that the chipset/laser combo in the El Cheapo player is more recent, or has better firmware. It could be that the Phillips machine even though new, is an older design and laser implementation.

What George said, plus the el-cheapo players have cut so many corners in the design that they don't really care they're getting by-the-book data-- so long as it's close, it'll try and play it. The high-end players conform to the standards, which means they disagree with and thus won't play more disks. The ones they do play should look a little better since they probably have better DACs and more MPEG-2 decode power.

[mcoliver]

Judging from the new models that keep popping up every week, I guess that explains why they'll have newer firmware.

Thanks guys.

[Mike H]

thread hijack

any recommendations for new DVD burners? got a new work laptop that doesn't have a DVD burner, unbelievable I know, but it's free

[Thomas Moore]

there might not be that big of a selection for laptop dvd burners unless you go with an external model.

will you be using usb 2.0 or firewire?

[George]

Right off the top of my head, I would recommend the Pioneer DVR-109 dual layer burner. It's an IDE standard internal burner that sells for under $100 and can be dropped into a USB 2.0/FW-400 case for about another $75 if you shop right.

Sony, or Lacie will be good choices also. Get one of the newer Dual Layer capable units and you won't feel like a Luddite in 6 months ;-)

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Regards,

[Thomas Moore]

george,

do you know if the dual layer burner will also burn on the single layer? the dual layer discs are expensive right now.

[George]

Yes, the dual layer capability is an added feature set, not an either, or thing. If it burns dual, it will also burn single.

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Regards,

[Mike H]

thanks for all the info!