Unleashed Posted June 3, 2005 Share Posted June 3, 2005 I have started to notice a trend with my trigger finger (right handed) that is starting to cost me time on stages. I noticed some with 1911s and it is very prevelant with the Glock I am shooting in prod. Not only can I not pull the trigger fast enough, but I am getting hang fires. I just bought the Deep 6 Comp trigger reset practicing piece from Glockmeister and have been practicing not only reset but splits with my 35. They aren't good and I don't know what to do to make them better. This has been a problem in the past with Glocks (up to 4 years ago). I decided to see just how fast my left trigger finger was (I shoot rifles left handed because I am cross dominant) and I was suprised to see that my splits were much faster and I had a lot less hang fires (not letting the trigger fully reset). I feel like my right finger is not letting out "enough" fast "enough". Are there any exercises I can do to speed up the pull and reset with my right hand. I know it really isn't my reflexes, it is just my finger getting locked up (regardless of grip pressure). Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted June 3, 2005 Share Posted June 3, 2005 Sounds like your trying is getting your way of doing. The best thing you can do to go faster is to relax and let your eyes tell your finger when to pull the trigger. You might try shooting at nothing, just pulling the trigger when the front sight hits the rear notch. .2 spilts are plenty fast enough to make limited Master. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehli Posted June 3, 2005 Share Posted June 3, 2005 I had a really dirty thought... but I'm not going to post it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unleashed Posted June 3, 2005 Author Share Posted June 3, 2005 I understand what you are saying and I agree...I can't shoot what my eyes don't see. The problem I am having is that my eyes see that I need to pull the trigger on the second shot (I am only having problems with splits on target) but there is a problem with my finger. I haven't timed any splits lately, but I can only do .2 or below every now and then. I am one classifier away from my "M" card in Production and I don't want to get there with a problem like this. It is pretty frustrating when I am trying to pull the trigger and my finger just doesn't want to cooperate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unleashed Posted June 3, 2005 Author Share Posted June 3, 2005 I had a really dirty thought... but I'm not going to post it. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Dude, that's a different finger and it works plenty fast. Get your mind out of the gutter! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalmas Posted June 3, 2005 Share Posted June 3, 2005 I have a similar problem, I have problems with my forearm (old muscle injury), if I work the trigger to fast (below .20 splits) it will cramp up and procduce trigger freezes. My initial idea was to settle for .2 splits because you seldom need more speed but the more and more frequent point-blank targets require more speed so I started experimenting to get my speed up. First A LOT of streching and warming up before shooting has helped and I've bought two grip masters, one I've put by the TV sofa and one in my car, making sure that I work out about 1 hour / day. It has helped my grip, my speed and the problem with my forearm so I can strongly recomment it. http://www.ski-snowboard-bekleidung.de/med...86/kb09002-.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glock17w Posted June 3, 2005 Share Posted June 3, 2005 I am no Master class shooter but I try to break down each mechanic of my shooting. I realize that when I can't move my trigger finger as fast as I want, I am tensing with my right hand too much. When I relax my right hand, I tend to go much faster. Another thing I have realized when it comes to shooting is when I think about something while doing it, I tend to go slower. Let your subconscious mind take over your shooting. You will shoot better and faster I think. Get away from the timer for a little bit and just work on your trigger speed through relaxed shooting. After you do that enough times, go back to the timer and see if your splits decrease. My 2 cents. Glock17w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
standles Posted June 3, 2005 Share Posted June 3, 2005 May be a dumb idea but what is your grip strength like in you Strong hand? if your griping the gun excessively with your trigger finger hand it will affect how fast you can move the trigger finger. My grip is normally 60%WH 40%SH and if I know I am going to need speed I drop that even more. Another thing is get a grip exercise machine and exercise all but the trigger finger. This will increase your grip strength but allow the trigger finger to separate. Later Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin c Posted June 3, 2005 Share Posted June 3, 2005 Sounds like good advice, what the posters above have offered. I think that L2S and Dalmas are on to something worth emphasizing - blazing splits aren't needed most of the time. 0.2 splits with very good transitions will beat 0.15's with sloppy transitions. But I would guess that "hangfires", or double clutching, trigger freeze, or however you describe it, would be even more costly, timewise. And if you are having problems getting to 0.2 splits, perhaps the two problems are related. For me, at least, the more I fight the gun, the harder I grip it, the worse my splits and the more likely a failure to reset trigger freeze will occur. Relaxing my grip helped me a lot. Of course, you can overdo this - my recoil recovery is a bit sloppy, so that I am working to find that happy medium. Extra hand strength may help, especially with any preexisting weakness or mechanical problem in the hand/arm. With greater strength you can grip the gun more firmly but without the excess tension/effort that may lead to slower splits and more likely trigger freeze. But, as pointed out above, you don't want overdo the strengthening w/ the trigger finger proper. Just my personal observations on my own technique, fwiw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric nielsen Posted June 3, 2005 Share Posted June 3, 2005 1. If you trigger-freeze occasionally in practice you'll do it A LOT in matches. 2. Your perception of stress at matches adds to tension in all 5 fingers. 3. If you slap the trigger like TGO or TJ, you'll almost never trigger-freeze. 4. If you have a Vanek job you can slap a Glock trigger pretty well. 5. Splits aren't very important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin c Posted June 3, 2005 Share Posted June 3, 2005 If you slap the trigger like TGO or TJ, you'll almost never trigger-freeze. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Good point, Eric. I'd forgotten that part of my problem with trigger freeze was a desire to get the reset down to the minimum possible movement of the finger and trigger. I'm experimenting with slapping the trigger. It's not coming easily, but so far I've noticed 1) no significant change in time (supporting the idea that splits are a relatively small portion of the time spent on a COF), 2) no big difference in accuracy (I miss anyway , but it does seem to help with my tendency to push shots to the left - I'm a right handed shooter with small hands, and I think that I am pushing the trigger to the left). I don't freeze too much any more (thank the powers that be), so it's hard to judge if there is any difference there. kevin c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alma Posted June 3, 2005 Share Posted June 3, 2005 I have been struggling with this same problem for the last three years. The good news is that the problem is almost extinct for me now. I assume that when you shoot a Glock you pin the trigger (you only let out the trigger far enough to reset after the shot breaks.) This is a good technique but it will make you more likely to have trigger freezes. The three things that you can do to eliminate this problem are: Relax – The faster you try to shoot the harder it is to fight off tension. The tenser you are the harder it is to shoot quickly. This is still hard you me to do when shooting Bill Drills. The Bill Drill is a great exercise you can do to focus on staying relaxed. Slap your trigger on close targets- When you get to close “Warp Speed” targets, you need to really exaggerate your finger movement to the point where your finger is leaving the trigger on every shot. Get a trigger job- I am using a Vanek trigger right now. The Vanek lightens the pull and shortens the reset so that it is harder to double clutch my shots. Using these methods I am always under .20 on my close targets and a rarely trigger freeze now. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shooter_rob Posted June 3, 2005 Share Posted June 3, 2005 Slapping the trigger is the best way to avoid trigger freeze but you have to be able to change gears on targets at greater distance and properly press the trigger rather than slap it. In my experience the glock trigger is the easiest to freeze on. As for trigger speed what helped me on that was a mutual friend of yours unleased, who happens to be a gunsmith, increaded my trigger return pressure on my STI and i went from a .15 split to the 10's and 11's on demand. Not sure if you can speed up the return on a Glock but it will help if you can. I would suggest looking for a faster trigger return spring for you Glock. Good luck and see you at the match Sat. in Raleigh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuildSF4 Posted June 3, 2005 Share Posted June 3, 2005 As for trigger speed what helped me on that was a mutual friend of yours unleased, who happens to be a gunsmith, increaded my trigger return pressure on my STI and i went from a .15 split to the 10's and 11's on demand. Not sure if you can speed up the return on a Glock but it will help if you can. I would suggest looking for a faster trigger return spring for you Glock. Good luck and see you at the match Sat. in Raleigh! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I presume you mean increased? If so wouldn't that also increase the trigger pull weight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shooter_rob Posted June 3, 2005 Share Posted June 3, 2005 I am a shooter but not a very good speller. Yes it will increase your trigger pull but not enough to hurt. I think it is a worthwhile compromise. It only added a few ounces to the pull but increased my splits by a tremendous ammount Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted June 4, 2005 Share Posted June 4, 2005 Don't fear the speed, fear the holes it leaves! Wow, I used to have that T-shirt! In my experience, without exception, trigger freezing, or any sort of slow, erratic, trigger finger movements were always the result of excess tension, caused by (usaully unconsciously) rushing, or trying to go fast. Just like every typing mistake. be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unleashed Posted June 4, 2005 Author Share Posted June 4, 2005 Don't fear the speed, fear the holes it leaves! In my experience, without exception, trigger freezing, or any sort of slow, erratic, trigger finger movements were always the result of excess tension, caused by (usaully unconsciously) rushing, or trying to go fast. Just like every typing mistake. be <{POST_SNAPBACK}> This does make sense.....imagine that! I don't really think it has to do with grip pressure or not seeing what I need to see for the shot to go. I have actually been battling a weak grip pressure from shooting some bullseye on the side (which has helped my accuracy a great deal!) I do notice that I am sometimes trying to go faster than parts of my body want to. I have had times where I get frustrated in the middle of a "hose fest" on a stage because my eyes see what they need to and I can't even swing the gun fast enough. I know that my eyes are the fastest part of the body and I feel confident that I am using them properly to communicate with my mind. I think the rest of me just needs to catch up. Thanks for all the replies....especially benos. I guess there isn't a quick fix, I will just keep shooting and let everything match up in the end! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterLefty Posted June 4, 2005 Share Posted June 4, 2005 Wow, I used to have that T-shirt! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I still have that shirt. On a separate note. I'm left handed (surprise, surprise) and have tendon/nerve damage in my trigger finger. (I shoved a shard of glass in my hand a 14) I was at a match one day and was explaining that my right hand is faster than my left hand on trigger speed. Bob L. was nearby and asked if I was trying to say that I was slow. I replied, "No, I'm saying that my right finger is faster than my left." It is not all about trigger speed. Smoother is faster. Kenny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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