Lead Exposure

[TBF]

My blood lead tested at 6 a year and a half ago.

My lab test just returned a freakin 26 this week.

I hate that I can't shoot indoors for a while.

I hate lead.

I hate that people shoot exposed lead base bullets indoors.

I also hate cancer, which I do not personally have, and I hate whining, so I'll just shut up now.

Travis F.

[Guest Larry Cazes]

2 years ago mine tested 38 and my wifes tested 27! We had been shooting in an old small indoor range for about 1.5 years prior to that. Cleaned up my gun cleaning and reloading habits and pretty much stopped shooting indoors for more than 5 minutes at a time and they are both back down in the noise. They were high enough to qualify as mandatory reports for our doctor. I hated that call from the health department! This is definitely a subject that the shooting sports community hasn't fully adressed yet.....Most people just don't want to know about the hazard. Be careful about exposure and your body will eventually eliminate the lead on it's own.

[bufit323]

What is considered exopsure?

Shooting lead indoors (obvious)

Handling lead bullets when reloading?

Scoreing targets in a cloud of smoke that someone just fired?

I would like to know becuase I shoot lead and a bunch of ny buddies do too!

[ima45dv8]

Shooting lead indoors (obvious) -- Yes.

Handling lead bullets when reloading? -- Yes.

Scoreing targets in a cloud of smoke that someone just fired? -- Yes. Being the RO walking directly behind the shooter ain't too good, either.

Another lovely source is that cloud that comes up when you dump your tumbler into whatever sort of media separator you use (includes lead from the primers). You can cut down on that by throwing a used dryer sheet in with the brass and media. It'll be pretty full of black, dusty gunk when you open the lid. Pull it out gently so as not to disturb the black dust and drop in the trash.

Also keep in mind that hand washing will go a long way to keeping your count down. According to my doctor, and I think I read it on the EPA website, it's the stuff you ingest that is more readily absorbed by your body than the stuff you breathe (breathing it is still bad, though). Don't eat or drink or smoke after being on the range until you wash up. Some "baby wipe"-type hand cleaners are good to have. Don't take an open drinking container into the range with you, unless you're serving cocktails for a local politician later that evening.

[.40AET]

Sorting dirty brass is a big problem.

The guy who I was buying brass from got his tested and it came back at 45. The guys who work at the indoor range that I shoot at are around 5. My brass guy has since quit the business.

[johnhurd]

"26" quit your whining, I test at 70 they be waiting for mining rights when I go!!!!!!!!!! YOu wanna die from a cramp in your remote finger??????

[carinab]

Um, at around 60 for a lead count they start asking you who the president is and what day of the week it is....My level was at 47 - mostly because of shooting indoors, lack of hand washing right after shooting, showering the next morning rather than before hitting the sheets, sort of thing. The treatment really sucked. Being female, they were all concerned about my ovaries becoming toxic (i.e. potential birth defects in children). I had the dreaded chealated penicillium treatment. Two days hooked to an IV drip for eight hours each day and taking mineral vitamins the size of horse pills is no fun!

[dajarrel]

When my lead level came back in the mid 20's, along with the obvious things like less indoor shooting, hand washing, and the rest, my doctor recommended two 500 mg vitamin C tabs a day. I'm due a checkup this month, I'll see if it's come down.

FWIW

dj

[BEDELLCUSTOM]

a few years ago i tested at 28 for lead and was issued a prescription for pills to remove the lead from my blood system. i had to take 21 pills a day for 3 weeks(7 in the morning,7 in the afternoon, 7 in the evening) and then 7 a day until the pills were gone. the sulphur smell that was expelled from your body through going to the bathroom was pretty nasty. good thing for health insurance, the co-pay for the prescription was $10, the cost of the prescription for my insurance was $1100.00

high lead content in your blood is dangerous to your organs and especially your brain. i had mine checked because i was feeling sluggish and had alot of joint pain. if you handle alot of lead bullets or shoot indoors you should have it checked often.

[GuildSF4]

Interesting. I'll have to get mine checked.

Another thing that helps keep exposure down is a mask while sorting and tumbling brass. (Lots of lead in normal primers)

[carinab]

Ah...I forgot...when you have your serum lead level checked, they also need to check the zbb (zinc bromide....something or another). It's the combination of the two that tells you your toxicity level. Calcuim suppliments are what my toxicologist recommended I take BEFORE doing any lead related activity. Lead will bind to your bones. But if you have a surplus of calcium in your system, it gets absorbed before the lead does.

[b8fish]

Bob 'headshot' Elmore, GPSL club Treasurer and Georgia Section coordinator, assembled this small treatise on lead exposure for our members ...

http://www.gpsl.org/articles/Lead_Exposure.pdf

Exposure through tumblers was a later point Bob added on our GPSL forum discussion:

"Kerry Alexander, the range safety officer at the Cherokee Gun Club, also brings up another lead exposure for those of us who reload our own ammunition. When you open your case tumbler and empty the contents into a rotary media separator, be sure to avoid breathing in the dust. Although most of it is too large to be respirable, there is some very fine lead laden dust in with the larger particles. And if you ingest any of it by way of your mouth, particle size doesn't matter."

[chp5]

After my lead got high, I've resigned myself not to shoot indoors any more.

[blackdragon]

Mine seems to stay at a steady 12. Getting it checked at the end of the week.

Ivan

[Patrick Sweeney]

Carina brings up an interesting point. Given an excess of Calcium, the body with take up lead at a much reduced rate. I've been a continual milk drinker all my life. (Breakfast is half a box of Cheerios with a quart of milk.) My cholesterol is just fine, thank you, and my lead has never yet tested above 8.

[Jasonub]

i have never shot indoors but use lead in practice and competition and reloading. Is there a good chance that i have a high level of lead in my blood?

I wash thoroughly after reloading or handling primers.

Its just a hassle for me to go to a test center(none near by) if my risk is very low.

I would like to hear your opinions guys.

Thanks

[Guest Larry Cazes]

i have never shot indoors but use lead in practice and competition and reloading. Is there a good chance that i have a high level of lead in my blood?

I wash thoroughly after reloading or handling primers.

Its just a hassle for me to go to a test center(none near by) if my risk is very low.

I would like to hear your opinions guys.

Thanks

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Is your health important to you? Can't hurt to be tested!

[carinab]

Ah...I forgot...when you have your serum lead level checked, they also need to check the zbb (zinc bromide....something or another).  It's the combination of the two that tells you your toxicity level. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I found out the name of the additional test...it's ZPP (zinc protoporphyrin) not ZBB. There is another test too, FEP (Free Erythrocyte Protoporphyrin) that combined with a serum lead level test will determine lead toxicity.

Here is a link from the American Academy of Family Physicians on lead poisoning.

Apparently the treatment I had way back when is out of vogue. The newer treatments include EDTA (edetate calcium disodium), which is an IV drip treatment over a couple of days similar to chelated penicillium I had done, and DMSA (chemet) which is an oral treatment spanning 24 days.

Jasonub, I would go and get testing at least yearly just to keep tabs on it.

[Jasonub]

thanks guys ill drive to the testing center next week

[TBF]

Jason,

Probably a good idea to find out where you are lead wise.

At 26 I have no real symptoms.

OSHA says 40 is max .

WHO ( World Health Organization ) says 20 is max .

The lab that tested my blood says 0 - 19 is in the normal range .

If you get a test that is low, keep doing what you are doing.

If it's high change something.

Carina,

Thanks for the info, my Doc has not treated anyone for lead exposure and needs guidance. I am gently prodding him to look into this in detail, well " gently prodding " may not sum up my approach...

Is it bad form to show up at an indoor match wearing a respirator ?

Travis F.

[Jody Waring]

I got some results back, the thing is my docter never really spoke of numbers from any scale. My blood level he said was on the high side of normal, though I did a 24 hour urine test also and my secreted amount of lead in the urine was 3 times normal. I am doing another 24 hour urine test to see if there is any fluctuation up or down. At the time of the first test I was shooting alot, and I haven't been doing hardly any in the last few months where I have been working alot. Hopefully it checks out better this time. He told me I should quit shooting, and I think my wife is buying into it too.

[carinab]

At the time of the first test I was shooting alot, and I haven't been doing hardly any in the last few months where I have been working alot. Hopefully it checks out better this time. He told me I should quit shooting, and I think my wife is buying into it too.

It can take a good while for the lead to dissapate out. The main thing I found to keep the lead levels low was to pay attention to keeping your hands away from your mouth and face while at the range, making sure to wash up before eating, to remove shooting clothes when arriving home (so as not to put the dust all over the chairs/sofa), and to shower after shooting. Gotta be cautious with the dust in the tumbler as well. Fortunately I didn't have any physicians nagging at me to quit shooting.

[Phred]

Good info Carina. Lead is easy to hate.!. Given most shooters would fall into the non-occupational lead exposure category, and therefore not be subject to regular testing, I suspect more of us potentially have lead exposure problems than is apparent.

What’s particularly worrying is that even very low lead levels are a real concern to young children. An adult can test five to ten times the level considered safe for young children and still be relatively ok. The problem is that if we are testing high, what are we bringing home to our kids (children, grandchildren, ..) on our shoes, clothes and hands? Indoor shooting is particularly problematic as pointed out. Vaporized lead from many sources (primers, fragmented projectiles (even jacketed) hitting traps and burning powder melting lead) gets deposited as dust (fine film) over everything.

Something even possibly more insidious. I recently read that lead passes through the placenta to the fetus. Unlike some other blood borne substances lead is tightly attached to red blood cells making the mother -> fetus transfer that much worse. If you’re a female, have high lead levels and could conceive, this is potentially a serious problem – it takes a very long time (longer than nine months) to lower an adult’s lead level.

As pointed out, but can’t be stressed enough, practicing good hygiene is of the utmost importance in managing ones lead levels and potentially the lead levels of those living with you. Wash exposed skin thoroughly, minimize (don’t) eating when at the range or working around lead and have clothes, including shoes, that you manage separately from the rest of the families. Don’t wear your range clothes/shoes into the house – if lead comes off onto any carpet or upholstery it remains there for the kids to crawl around on.

Cheers,

Phred

BLL 38ug/dl -> less than 20

[sandman_sy]

Oh my God, i wish i read this thread before i started shooting. Guys, im a 8 week shooter. my wife is pregnant,(17 weeks), i don't let her go to the range, i don't let her touch my shooting stuff, but, i do clean my gun beside her in our sofa, probably 10 times already. It never entered my mind that i was using Lead bullets and it could harm my wife and my baby, didn't take showers when i get home from shooting

Is my baby already affected?

Is there anything i can do?

Learned a lot by reading this thread guys, what should i do?? Please help:(

[carinab]

Take a breath...Relax - I doubt that you have caused any major problems with her pregnancy if you have only been shooting for two months. I shot until I was 6 months pregnant and couldn't fit the gun belt around my middle any more. Just clean up your habits. Get the sheets changed on the bed (and wash them), vacuum the upholstery, and clean your gun in the garage next time. Pitch your clothes into the washer when you get home and head for the shower. It's continual exposure and bad habits that will spike your lead levels. If for some reason you are really worried about her exposure, have them run the blood screenings on her next ob/gyn visit. 'Course I might not mention the gun aspect to the doc...