Wolf hammer spring better than patriot defense

[ShortBus]

My cut up 14lbs non stacking wolf never failed me. Thousands of rounds and I didn't even know what a light strike was. Installed a patriot 12lbs that was insanely long and number 54/200 required 2 strikes. So disappointed, I thought I was running the optimal set up. 

 

was my wolf the OG of optimization? 

 

Edited November 7, 2016 by ShortBus

[ryridesmotox]

What primers and firing pin are you using?

[ShortBus]

CCI's and I think a hemming gen3

 

edit: pretty sure it's a gen5

Edited November 7, 2016 by ShortBus

[johnbu]

Double whack indicates possible primer seating, over long for the chamber or weak spring force.   Among others!  Hard to say what your issue is caused by.  What firing pin return spring? 

Out of curiosity, what are your trigger pull weights w the cut 14wolff and the PD12?   Using PD12, I get DA 4# 13oz. Using pd13 it goes up to 5# even.

[ryridesmotox]

I had light strike issues with my Henning. Went back to the stock one. For CCI I like the 14lbs spring from patriot defense. I'm switching over to Winchester primers after my last 1k of cci is gone so I plan to go with the 12 Or 13lbs then. I am not chasing the lightest pull possible. I want to run a match with no light strikes. I also had my barrel reamed as that is also a contributor. One cartridge not igniting on the first and on the second might also be the seating depth of that primer as well. I know of guys with CCIs that are using 12lbs springs but I have a good enough trigger for my ham fists.

[bigbob21]

10 wouldn't work for me even with federals, maybe 50/50, seating issues?
12 works fine with federals and couple of Winchester that I had already loaded thrown in the mix...
Only light strikes I get right now are when I get a high (anything above flush) primer... so I do a lot more qc now



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[PatriotDefense]

ShortBus, as you can see there is a ton of information here on Enos regarding how to PROPERLY set your pistol up to function reliable. As everyone knows we are also readily available and will help out anyway we can for our customers. The below is not an attack on you personally but more or less a brief teaching on spring rate and your lack of information given originally about your gun; seems you where focused more on how disappointed you where in our product than actually receiving help on your issue.

As pointed out above it sounds like you have other factors playing into your issue that your so quick to blame the spring. First off overall spring length doesn't mean anything when it comes to spring rate!!!! That's just one factor that plays into the formula..... Wire diameter, wire material, coil count, and overall length make up a spring's rate. So it's possible that your "cut up" 14lb Wolff still had a higher spring rate than our 12lb hammer spring. 

A double strike as indicated above can be poor primer seating depth, short/tight chamber, and or lack of adequate spring rate on the hammer. With out you telling us exactly how your gun is setup and jumping so quickly to blaming our product it's hard to help you diagnose and properly fix whatever issue the Wolff spring was covering up. Polishing plays a huge part in these guns ability to run reliable and dictates what spring you can run in these guns based on your primer and if you truly have that load dialed in perfect for your gun. A few questions on your ammo- do you hand load? What's your OAL? Does it pass the plunk test and fall out freely? Can you spin the round freely during a plunk test? What depth are your primers seating at?

Jumping from a 14lb Wolff to a 12lb PD spring is a rather large jump in hammer spring as well. We recommend most guys go down 1lb at a time rather than jumping to our second lowest spring rate hammer spring. We only would recommend a 12lb hammer spring (CCI primers) to somebody we know has a top notch polishing job with the Titan hammer, Xtreme sear, factory firing pin, our firing pin spring, properly tuned gun, and proper ammo. 

With all that said if you would please list what exactly is done to your gun and what parts installed we'll get you headed in the right direction on getting your gun 100%.  Thanks!

 

[JusticeOfToren]

If you can fire on 2nd strike, it usually means your primer seating depth is not optimal.   If you run Mark 7 autodrive, you can adjust that.  If you load manually, make sure your upstroke (on 650) goes all the way as much as you can manage.  I usually just set it to the deepest.  I have 0 light strikes running PD 12# spring with Winchester.  I have not tried CCI because Winchester is as easy to get and just as cheap as CCI. 

[ShortBus]

I was right in the middle of a dot drill, it may have been struck twice. Primers are seated deep. 

[PatriotDefense]

Still haven't provided us with any details on your gun or information pertaining to your load..... We're here to help but we need you to give us more information than "primers seated deep"......

[ryridesmotox]

He is probably trollin. He starts off saying he had one light strike. Now he says he MAY have struck it twice, vague description of how the gun is set up, gen 3 Henning at first then a gen 5. Meh...

I ignite CCIs 100%. Everything is polished like a mirror, chamber had been reamed to proper size, CGW light firing pin spring in place of the plunger spring, CGW trigger return spring, BOLO, single piece sear, titan hammer, ORIGINAL STOCK 2 FIRING PIN (i had terrible luck eight he gen5 Henning in my gun for some reason), PD firing pin spring, PD 14lbs hammer spring. I also have tried the 13lbs spring with CCIs and I was 100% with that as well. But with my luck on classifiers, I went with a 14lbs spring. My trigger is 2lbs 5oz in SA and 5lbs 5oz in DA with a 14lbs spring. If you are chasing a light DA, you will have to polish the firing pin and the hammer strut more so you can support the lighter spring, any friction in there and it will slow it down and cause a light strike. Make sure the pin block isn't interrupting. Switch to the original pin that cane with the gun. If you are chasing a lighter SA, get some stones and make sure the hammer and sear engagement is mirror smooth. That's what I might do next in this gun. In my 1911s, smoothing the sear engagement improves trigger feel remarkably... like breaking a pencil stick.

Edited November 8, 2016 by ryridesmotox

[PatriotDefense]

Starting to look that way Ry........

Edited November 8, 2016 by PatriotDefense

[ShortBus]

I was banned but now I'm unbanned. 

I was in the middle of running the dots drill and wasn't stopping to diagnose, I was trying to finish the drill because I only had 5 seconds.. the more I think about it the more I think I had more than one restrike.

i honestly can't remember the firing pin, it's a big heavy super polished one, not one of the light ones. 

 

My chamber is not messed up. 

My load is not too long or to bulged.

My primers are set deep. No measurements

my trigger is a sub 6/2 with the WOLF. Didn't notice any change with the PD other than my first like strike. I will get it measured with a gauge to see if there is any difference. This gun has a titan hammer, extreme trigger, PD optimized FPS, extended FPB, 1 piece sear, and a super slick polish job. I think I'm just gonna go with the optimized 13 and call it a day. 

[johnbu]

The old "hot snot" was a 14# wolf  with the ends cut off.  so i do believe that, as i used to run one with a cut up fp return spring.  there's a pile of various cut wolff springs in the box.

The PD line of springs are (imho) smoother and slightly lighter.  The cut wolf  was decent, but it is more comparable to the PD14 rather than the 12. The important thing is a gun that runs 100%. Right now mine is running good with PD12 and wolf primers.  Funny, but I'm still finding stuff to fix to make them more robust.

 

 

Edited November 9, 2016 by johnbu

[ryridesmotox]

I got a 403 error yesterday too. I think everything went down

[Mike62]

I am running the PD 12lb hammer spring without issue with CCI and Fiocchi primers.  I have all stock internals with a 30 minute very amateur polish job.  The biggest factor for me making the gun run was shorting up my load significantly.  I had to shrink my 147 Bayous from 1.15 to 1.11, now the gun runs perfect.  Thinking about trying a 10lb spring to see if it will run with that.

[ryridesmotox]

Part of the issue is that, you went from a 14lbs spring to a 12lbs. That is a pretty large jump right there. Probably should have started with a 14lbs pd spring and then went down from there. My 14lbs Wolff feels like it adds some stack over the pd spring. Both feel fairly similar in weight to me. But for one to try and cut 2lbs off a spring rate and still ignite the same primers, kind of asking for issues. Try a 13lbs spring, that might be your happy medium.

Edited November 9, 2016 by ryridesmotox

[MissionaryMike]

 This may not be a major factor, but I do believe it is a contributing one: not all Tanfoglios are created equal. That is to say, as it has been said over and over again, that the manufacturing tolerances for the Tanfoglio pistols are inconsistent at best.  Combine that w/ the ridiculous standard to which John and Tony (who's gone MIA) have elevated the trigger work and expertise, it's no wonder people aren't content w/ ultra smooth 6#/2.5# actions.  I just hope I can get my actions just a smooth and light as my CZ. Otherwise, my move to Tanfoglio is based on ergonomics and the cool factor.

[PatriotDefense]

15 hours ago, ShortBus said:

I was banned but now I'm unbanned. 

I was in the middle of running the dots drill and wasn't stopping to diagnose, I was trying to finish the drill because I only had 5 seconds.. the more I think about it the more I think I had more than one restrike.

i honestly can't remember the firing pin, it's a big heavy super polished one, not one of the light ones. - So is it the Henning Pin like you stated or a factory pin? Is it fluted or solid that's the easiest way to tell? 

 

My chamber is not messed up. - Based off what conclusion? Did you cast your chamber and check its dimensions? How much free bore is present, whats your OAL, or chamber diameter?

My load is not too long or to bulged.- If your using a case gauge this does nothing for you if you have a short or tight chamber

My primers are set deep. No measurements- Are they sitting flush or countersunk into the primer pocket?

my trigger is a sub 6/2 with the WOLF. Didn't notice any change with the PD other than my first like strike. I will get it measured with a gauge to see if there is any difference. This gun has a titan hammer, extreme trigger, PD optimized FPS, extended FPB, 1 piece sear, and a super slick polish job. I think I'm just gonna go with the optimized 13 and call it a day. - Who polished and did the tuning on your gun? How many coils where clipped from the Wolff Spring? 

 

[johnbu]

31 minutes ago, MissionaryMike said:

 This may not be a major factor, but I do believe it is a contributing one: not all Tanfoglios are created equal. That is to say, as it has been said over and over again, that the manufacturing tolerances for the Tanfoglio pistols are inconsistent at best.  Combine that w/ the ridiculous standard to which John and Tony (who's gone MIA) have elevated the trigger work and expertise, it's no wonder people aren't content w/ ultra smooth 6#/2.5# actions.  I just hope I can get my actions just a smooth and light as my CZ. Otherwise, my move to Tanfoglio is based on ergonomics and the cool factor.

That's actually an excellent point.  these guns range from spectacular to nasty with most being pretty good. Some are just stinkers that don't respond as expected to changes and a lucky few have guns that start off awesome and only get better.   But, nearly all can be moved closer to awesome with diligent prep of the best parts.  The thing I found was the initial prep makes them good, but touching up the parts every time when detail striping really helped...over time.

I was stuck over 7# da for a long time. The PD parts really helped knock off the last few pounds. And diligent attention knocked off an oz here and there.

If you get to Wi, you can run my guns and see how you like it.

[ShortBus]

My primers are past flush and are resessed into the primer pocket. Pin is solid other than area for FPB. 

 

I dont case case guage because I don't care because my chamber is massive. For fun I take rounds from people that locked there gun up tight or wouldn't extract or won't feed and run them threw my gun. I've taken rounds that don't even fit half way into the case guage and ran them smoothly. 

 

That said i am running processed brass brass that has been through 2 sizing stations including a U die. 

 

I have tons tons of space to the lands. So much that I could visually tell if I had a round too long to go into the chamber. 

 

This is a 60,000+ round gun. She broke in. The guy I got it from did the tuning. He had a couple of these and got them set up and running. The cut wolf was prior to your venture into the spring market. We all bought some of your springs and I'm just not getting around the installing it/messing with it. 

 

 

[ShortBus]

Had 30+ light strikes today. Really curious what is causing it. Polish job seems good, everything is smooth pull wise, doesn't look like pin is making contact with FPB. 

 

Ammo was loaded on buddies mark 7 1050 and primers where deep, as deep as they'd go. He told me the measurement but I forgot (.009 maybe?)

[ShortBus]

The light strikes obviously weren't everytime, but when it happened it looked like the FP juuuust barley hit it. Obviously a light strike is a light strike (lol) but this seemed aweful light compared to what it takes to ignite one. Wonder if something mechanical is happening randomly 

[Kraj]

37 minutes ago, ShortBus said:

The light strikes obviously weren't everytime, but when it happened it looked like the FP juuuust barley hit it. Obviously a light strike is a light strike (lol) but this seemed aweful light compared to what it takes to ignite one. Wonder if something mechanical is happening randomly 

Remove the fpb and see if they go away. It's not production legal obviously but that sounds like it's dragging on the block. 

[johnbu]

It sounds like ammo. Too wide or too long.

 

That  "signature " of just barely struck is almost certainly the ammo seating deeper/moving foreward  when struck.  case gage or plunk test 100 rounds in your barrel.

Could also be crud holding the round from chambering.  i had sand in a mag transfer to the round then hold it from fully chamber recently.