jlchevy Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 Heading up thurs morning to shoot the match and see my son at JBLM was told they are having a heat wave hi of 91 low of 56 . At out 3gun match it was 95 at 7:30 last sat with a hi around noon of 100 look forward to some cooler shooting weather, anyone on here going ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreGarciaTAT2 Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 I'm shooting it with three other members of my shooting team, we'll be in green jerseys. We live in az... So 100 is perfect shooting weather for us. LolSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlchevy Posted August 16, 2016 Author Share Posted August 16, 2016 Cool i see we are both in squad 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJPLEO Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 I'll be there. We moved up here from AZ 8 years ago. It was 119 the day we left, don't miss that at all. Been spoiled living in Sequim ever since, lol. Best weather in all the PNW. Good luck this weekend, Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreGarciaTAT2 Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 Cool i see we are both in squad 1 It was a good match! :-)Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreGarciaTAT2 Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 You gonna be there today?Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlchevy Posted August 21, 2016 Author Share Posted August 21, 2016 Yep will be there around noon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlchevy Posted August 23, 2016 Author Share Posted August 23, 2016 Good match now back to a hot Texas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 so what's the story about a stage getting tossed out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Koski Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 Match results? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeidaho Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 Videos or it didn't happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 http://members.idpa.com/Events/Details/24641 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 a stage was tossed, i wonder why.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandbagger123 Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 (edited) 10 hours ago, rowdyb said: a stage was tossed, i wonder why.... .... Edited August 24, 2016 by Sandbagger123 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 And no one caught this in days of shooting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SandyASI Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 They did not, the rule book is not that simple these days, but it was missed. The MD did, in the end make the right decision ( IMO ) to drop the stage. How many times have we seen illegal stages ignored? Good on Dave to stand up for the rules. Sandy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlchevy Posted August 24, 2016 Author Share Posted August 24, 2016 the funny thing is the stage was designed by their area coordinator . Not so funny I got home but our guns did not F_-- sw airline hope the show up or i will be having to regear up for Nat's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickB Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 (edited) 3 hours ago, jlchevy said: the funny thing is the stage was designed by their area coordinator . Not so funny I got home but our guns did not F_-- sw airline hope the show up or i will be having to regear up for Nat's. I don't know how funny it was, but yeah, I designed the stage; no more than six shots allowed at more than 25 yards, and it measured 28 yards. I'll take the blame for not pacing it off, but why wait for two days, two hours, preliminary results, stage tear-down, an "If there are no more scoring challenges . . ." announcement, and then mention it? Edited August 24, 2016 by RickB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 I mention it because the gossip i heard from people on the ground ( i didn't shoot this match) was that the process by which this happened wasn't as clean, clear or timely to most shooters as described here. Admittedly, this is from people who lost positions in overall standing of their division when the stage was tossed, so you can call it sour grapes if you want. I'm not quite ready to just call what they said as sour grapes yet, so if something is described to me as fishy (by shooters. again i wasn't there) then I felt like asking. Illegal stages shouldn't make it to level 2 or higher match. complex rule book or not. i wanted to know how it was decided to throw it. who brought it to whose attention. who decided to do so. who announced it and most importantly when these actions were taken and how they were conveyed to the shooters. especially relevant to when scores were supposed to be completed or challenged. transparency and accountability. or just say "what's done is done. you weren't there so be quiet about it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlchevy Posted August 25, 2016 Author Share Posted August 25, 2016 It was a good match I will be back next yr, thanks to all the SO's and staff now on to the nat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickB Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 12 hours ago, rowdyb said: I mention it because the gossip i heard from people on the ground ( i didn't shoot this match) was that the process by which this happened wasn't as clean, clear or timely to most shooters as described here. Admittedly, this is from people who lost positions in overall standing of their division when the stage was tossed, so you can call it sour grapes if you want. I'm not quite ready to just call what they said as sour grapes yet, so if something is described to me as fishy (by shooters. again i wasn't there) then I felt like asking. Illegal stages shouldn't make it to level 2 or higher match. complex rule book or not. i wanted to know how it was decided to throw it. who brought it to whose attention. who decided to do so. who announced it and most importantly when these actions were taken and how they were conveyed to the shooters. especially relevant to when scores were supposed to be completed or challenged. transparency and accountability. or just say "what's done is done. you weren't there so be quiet about it." As I described, there was a stage that didn't comply with the rules; too many rounds required on a "standards type" stage beyond 25 yards. No issue other than the targets being nine feet too far from the firing line (or three too many rounds required; pick). As the MD was walking to the mic to announce, "We have a match" - after preliminary results had been posted, and after announcing that if there were no more appeals, the match would be considered final - someone stopped him and told him the stage was illegal. (As I went out to pace off the target distance) the MD then mulled the option of deciding that the appeal period had ended so it was too late to challenge the stage. Since he had not yet announced that no more appeals would be heard, he decided to "consider" the appeal. The MD then went on the PA and asked the assembled crowd if they wanted to go ahead with the results, or toss the stage and recalculate the results. That was a matter of expediency; do people want to wait another half-hour for results, or go ahead? I'd estimate that the show of hands indicated that 75% wanted to proceed with the illegal stage included in the results. After announcing that they'd proceed with the existing results, and about five minutes of animated pacing, the MD said, "We can't do that, I'm tossing the stage!", anticipating complaints about going forward when it was known that the stage was illegal. He did not confer with the stats guys, there was no, "How will this affect the results?", it was just a matter of integrity. The preliminary results are posted in a format that makes it difficult for people to know how they'd performed; listed alphabetically, with raw times and penalties. If someone wanted to know how well they had done, relatively, they'd have to do the math on all of their own stages, and then do the same for anyone else whose score they wanted for comparison. Lots of people dropped 10-20 points on the stage, so a lot of people would benefit from it being tossed; so many that it might not have any beneficial impact on shooter X vs. Y. The final results were not posted prior to the stage being tossed, so anyone who thinks they lost positions in the standings would have had to calculate it on their own, reintroducing a stage not included in the finals. It could be as easy as, "Hey, how many points did you drop on stage 13? Ten? I dropped two, so I would have beaten you if it hadn't been tossed!" I'm sure there was some of that, but there'd be no reason to ask prior to the stage being dropped. I do question why someone would wait until literally the last second to appeal, but that person's motives don't really matter if scores and standings are corrected as a result (right?). The rule book says stages may be challenged any time prior to the final results being "posted", which suggests that someone could challenge a stage even after awards are presented, if the final results had not been, say, stapled to a tree somewhere where competitors could see it. I commend the MD for doing the right thing in tossing the illegal stage, but it is interesting that there seem to be as many questions about motives for doing so as there might have been if he'd just said, "Screw it, I don't feel like being here for another half hour", and leaving the stage in the results? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreGarciaTAT2 Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 I mention it because the gossip i heard from people on the ground ( i didn't shoot this match) was that the process by which this happened wasn't as clean, clear or timely to most shooters as described here. Admittedly, this is from people who lost positions in overall standing of their division when the stage was tossed, so you can call it sour grapes if you want. I'm not quite ready to just call what they said as sour grapes yet, so if something is described to me as fishy (by shooters. again i wasn't there) then I felt like asking. Illegal stages shouldn't make it to level 2 or higher match. complex rule book or not. i wanted to know how it was decided to throw it. who brought it to whose attention. who decided to do so. who announced it and most importantly when these actions were taken and how they were conveyed to the shooters. especially relevant to when scores were supposed to be completed or challenged. transparency and accountability. or just say "what's done is done. you weren't there so be quiet about it."What's up rowdy? Hope all is well out on your end... Anyway, to clarify as much as I can about the stage getting tossed. My shooting team and I shit the entire match on Saturday... That night, we talked about the stages over dinner, one guy said he had a feeling that stage was illegal, even though he shot well on it... Later in the evening one of our team members texted and said he found the rule, 6.7.2, we all checked it, he was right. Next day we headed out to the match, we decided we were going to bring it up to the match director, even though all of us actually shot the stage really well. When we arrived, they were around 2 hours ahead of schedule, and scores had been posted, we still went and told the match director, and as it was going down, I went and checked the scores... It moved me down TWO places, and the guy who found the rule went down as well... He was the fastest on our team and switched with our team captain because of it. (He still won CDP EX, but it was a margin of like 40 seconds, no one stage could effect that) one member of our team did move up a spot... But I think the big switch-a-roo that has caused the most upset is for the SSP Division... But I am still extremely proud of Chris Sailer, who came out as the overall winner... It's amazing toBe that young (16) and being able to edge out Campbell, one of the best shooters I've ever known. Also, the overall match winner was Nils (duh) who shot the match wth enough spare room to get two FTDR's and still win. LolSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreGarciaTAT2 Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 I hope this helps clear the air on the IDPA grapevine. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 So this rule was followed? Since we're talking about using rules to make decisions. Rule 1.1.8 Scores are final and cannot change after the one hour protest period at the end of the match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMB Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 (edited) The MD was notified within the protest period. Edited August 26, 2016 by buller01 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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