Dry Fire Draw Consistent 1.2

[Shooter Grrl]

WTF?!? Where could I possibly be losing .6 seconds? Oh, and the live fire draw is a consistent 1.8 AT ANY DISTANCE!

I'm doing somefing wrong

[Mistral404]

I had the same sort of problem. A couple of things I tried to diagnosis the area/cause of the problem were:

1. Start with the hand griping the gun and punch the buzzer. What are your times.

2. Do you dry fire indoors? Live fire outdoors?

3. Do you wear sunglasses when you are dry firing? I wasn't and it made a difference in how quickly I acquired the sight picture.

4. Are you using a par time for your timing during dry firing?

5. Are you taking the safety off and pressing the trigger during your dry firing?

[Ben Stoeger]

Could you be "overconfirming" the up close shots?

[AWLAZS]

WTF?!?  Where could I possibly be losing .6 seconds? Oh, and the live fire draw is a consistent 1.8 AT ANY DISTANCE!

I'm doing somefing wrong

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What I found was I was relaxed during Dry fire but when I got the the range I tried to go fast. It adds time. I started chewing gum while I shoot to keep me loose waiting for the beep. I got the idea from a posting some place around here. It made my live fire closer to my dryfire.

In dryfire its much easier to say you did the drill before the beep ends then it is to beat the clock with a shot. I set a .50 par on my old club timer. It went beeeeebeeeep. THe buzzer ate up the whole time allowed for the drill.

[Pierruiggi]

I don't know you ShooterGrrl, so don't misinterpret me please, but, have you considered the mental implications and differences between Dry fire and Live fire?

That 0.6 second could be hesitation.

[Jake Di Vita]

Without actually watching for it my guess would be you have the 50 yard draw syndrome.

[Pierruiggi]

Would that be "over aiming" Jake?

[Shooter Grrl]

I had the same sort of problem.  A couple of things I tried to diagnosis the area/cause of the problem were:

1. Start with the hand griping the gun and punch the buzzer.  What are your times.

2. Do you dry fire indoors? Live fire outdoors?

3. Do you wear sunglasses when you are dry firing? I wasn't and it made a difference in how quickly I acquired the sight picture.

4. Are you using a par time for your timing during dry firing?

5. Are you taking the safety off and pressing the trigger during your dry firing?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

1. Will try that one.

2. Yes and yes.

3. YES - I don't think I'd see the target at all indoors with my sunglasses on - will have to work on this one, could be a part of it.

4. Yes - I'm using the par time for the dry fire and I do take the safety off and press the trigger.

[Shooter Grrl]

Could you be "overconfirming" the up close shots?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yup - but how do you stop overconfirming it?

[ErikW]

How about tensing up on the gun in anticipation of the blast, causing the dot to wiggle, causing you to wait for it to settle on the target?

[BritinUSA]

I agree, hesitation could be a big part of it. I have also noticed a huge difference between dry fire and live fire and this is why I am starting to question the benefit of dry fire.

The draw - like any movement - needs to be unconscious to be effective, thinking about a fast draw will guarantee a slow one. Chewing gum is just a distraction that aids an unconscious movement, it's a crutch.

I read on another forum that Eric Grauffel's typical draw is around 1.1 to 1.2 seconds. I think there's a tad too much focus on the draw in this game. If you are .6 of a second down what does that equate to at the end of the stage ? You can make up .6 by working on transitions, and movement.

Now I just practice reloads, this is the one thing that keeps biting me on the butt. So that's what I practice. I don't have a problem re-acquiring the dot after a reload it's the 'sticking the big thing in the hole' that keeps mucking me up...

The draw without breaking a shot with a live round just doesn't seem to help me in any way... Of course I could be the odd one out, it wouldn't be the first time.

[lynn jones]

recoil baby recoil

[Pierruiggi]

Hehe I like the chat ambient of this thread.

SG, that'd be strictly mental/trust/know. Learn to interpret your sights/dot at various distances.

BTW, I'm no know-it-all, I'm dealing with this and many issues myself

[Shooter Grrl]

Awesome comments guys

I definitely think tension is playing a part in it. As is "rushing" during the live fire practice.

So - how do you overcome those? Gosh, I thought I had all this down years ago. I may just have to face the fact that there is too much *other stuff* going on in my life, again, to have a good focus on shooting

[Ben Stoeger]

Could you be "overconfirming" the up close shots?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yup - but how do you stop overconfirming it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I just went through this myself a couple months ago. What I did is move up very very close to the target, just about arms length. A couple yards at most. I shot some draws using a Type 1 body feel type focus. I just used this exercise to get used to the pace of the draw, as it will only be a hair slower when I start seeing my sights more and more clearly as I move back. I found this helpfull.

[Shooter Grrl]

recoil baby recoil

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh shut up, just shut up

[BritinUSA]

So - how do you overcome those?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

By not dwelling on it... Focus on that part of the target that you want to hit... timer goes 'BEEP'.... hit the target. There is no draw, there is no hesitation, just BANG..

This is probably not a good analogy but here goes anyway...

Imaging a start position where you are holding a full can of coke in your strong hand. When the timer goes 'BEEP' you don't drop the can... you grab the gun

What happens to the can is irrelevant.

When the timer goes 'BEEP' put the sights on the target, focus on aligning the sights to the target, the draw will take care of itself. Your brain knows how to do it, the synapses are set. Let it happen, don't interfere, don't think, don't force, don't speed ... just B.E.

[ErikW]

Also, maybe just try setting up a couple yards away from the berm and drawing to it, firing just when you see your dot.

[Flexmoney]

Well...I've never seen you dry-fire...but, I have seen you live-fire. (watch those Rayner videos)

Your live-fire draw is losing time at the end of the draw stroke. No doubt about that. You extend the gun...then... ... ... you shoot. I'd estimate that the wait is around 0.5 seconds.

My guess is that you don't do that in dry-fire. You probably extend the gun and pull the trigger. (no "pay value" not to...a miss in dry-fire means zip to you)

In live-fire, it seems you might be waiting until you know you have the dot on the target...not chancing a miss. Not sure if that, in and of itself, is a bad thing. That might be alright.

That brings up two questions:

1. Why are you doing it different in dry-fire? A likely answer is that you accept less in dry-fire...maybe to the point that you are sloppy. As I mentioned...a miss in dry-fire has no bad mojo to go with it. You probably have speed on the brian...not vision.

2. If we accpet that you are waitng to see the dot on the target in life fire (and that is a good thing, btw)...why is it taking so long to get it there? What is flawed in your presentation.

Drill #1 in Steve's book ought to fix you right up. It won't even take 5 minutes a day. (and, you won't get any wear and tear on your trigger either)

[kimel]

Back when I got to practice (seems like forever ago) I would set up 10 inch plates and draw to those from 10/15/20 yards.

This really helped me work on that first shot and get what I wanted...which was some reasonable correlation between my dry fire and live fire draws.

It also helped me diagnose some stuff I was doing wrong. The biggest one was waiting until I had extended after the draw to start picking up the sights. There went a big hunk of time.

It also really made my 5 to Go faster (being a contrarian I shoot it far to near).

But that was back when I actually got to practice. I gotta win lotto so I can retire.

[Steve Anderson]

I think Flex is right on the money.

If you pull the trigger in dry fire draws, there is a tremendous temptation to bonk that trigger to "get the time."

If we don't pull the trigger, the only way our ego can claim the time is with an acceptable sight picture at blazing speeds.

I noticd this right away when I started seriously dry firing, so I quit doing it. I decided it was more important to speed up the sight picture than the shot, so that I would never be tempted to honk an early shot at a match.

I never hit the trigger on single shot drills in dry fire, only on multiple shot drills. I truly believe it's the best way to get a killer draw.

The other component has to do with how much live fire practice you're getting. There can exist a psychological reluctance to do fast things with a hot blaster if it feels at all different than our normal experience. I can recall the first time I went to the range after getting a sub 1 draw in dry fire. It took some trust to go that fast with rds in the gun and coming out of the barrel.

Jake may also have a point about the 50 yard draw. You might consider doing some extremely close draws to get to know what it feels like to do a 1.2 with a hot gun. Into the berm isn't a bad idea either...it may give you "permission" to do it again.

I wish you'd have asked me this at the range...

So why don't you get drill #1 down to 1 or .9 (you're very close) and then see where you wind up.

AND, whatever you do, think about something else at the match. Please don't go into a speed shoot stage thinking about your draw.

I'll look at the videos and maybe report back.

Good luck,

SA

[eric nielsen]

An issue for me was that the faster I presented out from high-ready to shooting, the less I trusted myself to be "ready" with live ammo.

Now I get my hand to touching the gun totally relaxed - don't even care about elbow position & wrist set. When I sense my hand just start to touch the gun I then RIP it up to high ready & slide pointed at the target. Then I extend out with a firm grip and it seeeeeeeeeeeems really slow - the extension - but it's not. The timer says I'm getting a good draw. Usually 1.1 at 15 yards, live-fire.

There are more visual cues that you're "ready" with iron sights vs a scope. Worst of all is the C-More, esp. the black C-More. YMMV

[XRe]

The other component has to do with how much live fire practice you're getting.

You might consider doing some extremely close draws to get to know what it feels like to do a 1.2 with a hot gun. Into the berm isn't a bad idea either...it may give you "permission" to do it again.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

For me, it was all up in my mind. These two things played a large part in getting past it. Almost exclusive dry fire got me to A class, but I hit a plateau at that point. At that point, I could shoot accurately, and my techniques were OK. I needed refinement and confidence. A class w/ Burkett highlighted the problems, and refined a lot of technique - and raw speed was one of the problems - I'd never practiced it before.

Lots of extreme close work, plus some work on what amounted to draws to a 12" plate at 10 yards w/ a type 1 focus (the idea was to *feel* and trust my body/eyes to break the shot when I'd hit) made a *huge* difference in this. I had to just flat out burn for a little while to get past the plateau. I also had to learn how to integrate that new skill set - I tended to shoot in a fast but unfocused fashion for a little while after that - just empirically learning what it would work for.

Remember that the first step of correcting an issuing is recognizing that you have it!! You're on your way to getting past it already

[Jake Di Vita]

Kath,

I have an idea if you want that might help you out.

I can videotape myself (or anyone else can for that matter) doing a dry fire draw at speed and a live fire draw at speed (from the strong hand side). I'm sure if you did the same and compared the two you would see exactly where you were losing time?

Let me know if you're interested.

[Flexmoney]

Not sure if you are looking for a Venus answer or a Mars answer. But, being a guy, this was bugging me.

Gosh, I thought I had all this down years ago.

...we never-ever have it down. We are always needin' work. I've decided to start over and learn to shoot again (this spring).

I may just have to face the fact that there is too much *other stuff* going on in my life, again, to have a good focus on shooting

Again...another guy answer...

Don't allow yourself an excuse. All you need is 5 minutes or so a day. (Do you have your gear on right now?)