Ammunition Choices

[Tsparger]

So I'm just getting into shooting competition and have been looking into economical choices for ammo to practice and shoot the comps with. I'm shooting a M&P Pro 9 and have just been buying boxes of 115 gr fmj at LGS's since that's all I can find. But I've been reading that a lot of folks will order their ammo from places like Atlanta Arms and that they prefer the 124 gr and even 147 gr because they are softer shooting. How is a bullet of higher weight softer shooting? Also, unless you buy their ammo by the case it seems to be less expensive at the LGS's so why buy from an online supplier? Last question is I have seen people shooting hollow points and am wondering why they would do that over a plain round nose bullet? Thanks for any input you can offer up.

Edited April 1, 2016 by Tsparger

[Jim Watson]

For a given power factor, the heavier slower bullet will have less FELT recoil even though ol' Isaac says it is mathematically the same.

I have seen all sorts of theories on it but some of them are getting into Davis Mechanics which is way over my head.

Since I am a handloader, I can tailor my ammo. I am at present loading a 125 gr BBI coated TC bullet to 1058 fps. I think a 147 at 900 is a bit milder but the 125 is good enough and the conical feeds better than the usual 147 flatpoint.

Some people use hollowpoints because they average somewhat more accurate. The smooth flat square base and rearward center of gravity make a difference. Not enough difference for me to pay extra at IDPA ranges and targets.

[Hi-Power Jack]

1. lot of folks prefer the 124 gr and 147 gr because they are softer shooting. How a bullet of higher weight softer shooting?

2. unless you buy their ammo by the case it seems to be less expensive and the LGS's so why by from an online supplier?

3. hollow points (advantage over ) a plain round nose bullet?

1. At the same PF, the heavier bullet is moving slower, and uses less powder - less powder equals softer ...

2. always buy by the case (alone or with others)

3. HP's are possibly more accurate, and people shooting with a compensator find that the fully enclosed

base of the bullet (no exposed lead) don't lead up their comps.

[Craig N]

If you're not reloading then you need to look for factory ammo that has a "slower" velocity. Blazer Brass 124 is advertised at 1050 which is 130ish. Winchester White Box 124 is like 140ish. This is why lots of comp shooters reload ammo. It's cheaper if you want to go that route and/or you can tailor a load to what your gun like and that you like to shoot.

[JDW174]

I shoot a G19 and a G34 in IDPA. The 147 does indeed shoot softer in both of them. I order all my ammo online. Some places will ship for free as long as you buy by the case.

[Topher3134]

AIM surplus has a good deal on ppu in 147 grain. I like the 140 grain sellier bellot I use currently.

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[MemphisMechanic]

Why you expect to result in a softer recoiling gun, and what ACTUALLY result in a softer recoiling gun are exact opposites:

* You want a light recoil spring. Heavier ones make the gun flip more. They don't "soak up the recoil" like you'd expect.

* A heavier bullet is softer in recoil than a heavy one. Think of a 45ACP versus a 357SIG that have identical kinetic energy at the target. 357 is a crackling snappy and 45 is a dull heavy push.

* Faster burning powders recoil less than slow burning ones. Again, totally opposite, but it is true. It's amazing how soft a 147 with a sprinkle of fast burning shotgun/ handgun powder like Solo100 or Clays or WST actually feels!

Edited April 6, 2016 by MemphisMechanic

[daytona955i]

For a given power factor, the heavier slower bullet will have less FELT recoil even though ol' Isaac says it is mathematically the same.

I have seen all sorts of theories on it but some of them are getting into Davis Mechanics which is way over my head.

Since I am a handloader, I can tailor my ammo. I am at present loading a 125 gr BBI coated TC bullet to 1058 fps. I think a 147 at 900 is a bit milder but the 125 is good enough and the conical feeds better than the usual 147 flatpoint.

Some people use hollowpoints because they average somewhat more accurate. The smooth flat square base and rearward center of gravity make a difference. Not enough difference for me to pay extra at IDPA ranges and targets.

F=MA, always, but there is also impulse which is force over time. With equal pressure in the barrel, the heavier bullet is slower, and spends more time in the barrel.

[GmanCdp]

A side view video of the shooter should prove the difference of muzzle flip perceived or actual .. I like any 230 Gr bullets for 45ACP but prefer 125 bullets for 9mm.. Shooters choice, put it on a timer and judge the accuracy needed to suit your need.

[thebridge]

Daytona nailed it. It's all about impulse... I go 147s over 2.9 or 3.0 grns of Vit. ..855fps...g34. Here's what happens in a nut shell...Cut coils off spring until it softens the flip. (All factory spring are able to handle full house loads). You need to stop before the slide slams the stops. (You'll know when this happens by feeling a noticeable bump and sight lift).

Ok like I was saying... Primer fires, powder burns bullet moves. We will feel the opposite force (Isaac) but heavier and a tailored load will be smooooother...more progressive acceleration. You want your powder burn to stop when the bullet exits. ...if you have a huge flash..back off power and you will not loose MUCH fps. Next felt is the spring and slide...bunch of mass the has to stop- recoil spring and slide stop. If it don't slam, it ain't bad.

What I would do... Buy a press..learn to reload. (It's worth it if only because of satisfaction that you did it yourself) Buy extra lower weight springs. Find a load to make 125pf. Cut coils one at a time. Polish mag lips to feed @ less spring weight....in a nutshell. Work on a high grip with proper 70/30 or 80/30 pressure and a good even stance that promotes this "impulse" to distribute evenly though your arms into your torso. Beautiful thing when it works.

Lastly....never don't be afraid to screw up. You'll learn so much more than some random guy on a forum typing on his phone could ever tell you.

[thebridge]

Daytona nailed it. It's all about impulse... I go 147s over 2.9 or 3.0 grns of Vit. ..855fps...g34. Here's what happens in a nut shell...Cut coils off spring until it softens the flip. (All factory spring are able to handle full house loads). You need to stop before the slide slams the stops. (You'll know when this happens by feeling a noticeable bump and sight lift).

Ok like I was saying... Primer fires, powder burns bullet moves. We will feel the opposite force (Isaac) but heavier and a tailored load will be smooooother...more progressive acceleration. You want your powder burn to stop when the bullet exits. ...if you have a huge flash..back off power and you will not loose MUCH fps. Next felt is the spring and slide...bunch of mass the has to stop- recoil spring and slide stop. If it don't slam, it ain't bad.

What I would do... Buy a press..learn to reload. (It's worth it if only because of satisfaction that you did it yourself) Buy extra lower weight springs. Find a load to make 125pf. Cut coils one at a time. Polish mag lips to feed @ less spring weight....in a nutshell. Work on a high grip with proper 70/30 or 80/30 pressure and a good even stance that promotes this "impulse" to distribute evenly though your arms into your torso. Beautiful thing when it works.

Lastly....never don't be afraid to screw up. You'll learn so much more than some random guy on a forum typing on his phone could ever tell you.

Pardon the grammatical errors and screwy math.. 80/20=100%...every time...don't be afraid to screw up!

[peterthefish]

Daytona nailed it. It's all about impulse... I go 147s over 2.9 or 3.0 grns of Vit. ..855fps...g34. Here's what happens in a nut shell...Cut coils off spring until it softens the flip. (All factory spring are able to handle full house loads). You need to stop before the slide slams the stops. (You'll know when this happens by feeling a noticeable bump and sight lift).

Ok like I was saying... Primer fires, powder burns bullet moves. We will feel the opposite force (Isaac) but heavier and a tailored load will be smooooother...more progressive acceleration. You want your powder burn to stop when the bullet exits. ...if you have a huge flash..back off power and you will not loose MUCH fps. Next felt is the spring and slide...bunch of mass the has to stop- recoil spring and slide stop. If it don't slam, it ain't bad.

Lastly....never don't be afraid to screw up. You'll learn so much more than some random guy on a forum typing on his phone could ever tell you.

It's not about impulse. There is no* recoil until the bullet leaves the barrel. The firearm is a closed system. You are just blowing up a balloon. You might change the center of mass, but again, any feel from that is negligible. Once the bullet leaves the barrel all that matters is momentum of the bullet, which is transferred to the barrel. Heavy bullet, light bullet, fast bullet, slow bullet, it's purely a momentum game. However, ceteris paribus fast powder = less powder and heavier bullet = less powder, and less powder = less gas escaping = less recoil. A complete burn just means you're maximizing efficiency (using as little powder as possible) and also reduces the pressure wave which reduces discomfort.

*there is some recoil caused by gas escaping past the bullet but it is negligible.

[thebridge]

Fish, I like you..

If the bullet moves, we can feel it...hold is extremely important in long guns..that's why snipers rarely shot the same zero. With perceived recoil...impulse is true...that's all I disagree with in what you said...but I'm 100% with you on everything else. I think this is a game of feel. Feel good= go fast. Feel confident= smooth trigger pull.

speakimg of feel and efficiently.. We obviously agree based on our comments...but the game changes when there's a comp screwed to the end...that's for a diff thread:)