Rush Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 Just wondering... I've just had two (senior) shooters tell me that open guns shouldn't have shock buffs? I currently run 2 shockbuffs with a 8 lb ISM spring and a hollowed out guide rod in my open... Is there a technical explanation as to why you shouldn't use shockbuffs in open guns? I use 3 in my limited gun with a 12.5 lb ISMI Spring... Regards and Thanks in advance... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehli Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 I've just had two (senior) shooters tell me that open guns shouldn't have shock buffs? Is there a technical explanation as to why you shouldn't use shockbuffs in open guns? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You answered your own question. The technical explanation is they're seniors... they're always right. If it works, don't f@#$ with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 I have always used a single shok buff in my .38 super comp gun. If it runs right with one, great. If not, great. -- Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcoliver Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 Rush, can you give more info on that hollowed out guide rod? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 I always use one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cking Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 The only downside of buff is they limit slide travel. I don't think two provides anything over just one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 In the olden days all Open guns were finicky beasts. The longer slide stroke and the more feeding time available from not-running buffs was vital to keep them going. Now that the good smiths have figured out how to make Open guns run, buffs can be used.. if they work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rush Posted April 19, 2005 Author Share Posted April 19, 2005 Seniors are they all like that? On my S_I guns.. they work.. can't open the slide anymore... but that doesn't really matter to me... so I'll keep the two buffs... Mcoliver, my guide rod is single piece SS that was drilled through to lighten it... nothing really special about it... Thanks again... Rgds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eerw Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 Have used one in my open guns..done that since 1990... have a hollowed guide rod in one of my guns.. it is an EGW build.. what do you see happening with the addition of one or two buffs??? How does it change the what the gun does, feels like or what do you see happen.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rush Posted April 19, 2005 Author Share Posted April 19, 2005 Originally, I used it more before to avoid the frame from getting bashed to hard. When I was using SP2/3N38, the gun seemed to be working at higher pressures and I could feel the slide coming into my hand/frame... I thought to soften this up with shock buffs. I now am back to 3n37, which doesn't seem to work the gun so hard... but when I took the buff out... the gun seemed to move more. More dot travel.. I ended up adding two buffs and the dot, for me, is more consistent. Its probably a personal thing... On my limited gun, I ended up with 3. The gun feels flatter and faster with it than without... I like the timing on both guns when they have a shorter slide stroke. On the shock buffs, I use the ones from EGW. Got them from shooters connection. Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rush Posted April 19, 2005 Author Share Posted April 19, 2005 The only downside of buff is they limit slide travel. I don't think two provides anything over just one. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Cking... what's the worse thing that could happen if you continually limit the slide travel? Theoretically of course.. . Rgds, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric nielsen Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 (edited) You could break the recoil spring cap & watch the whole assembly go flying downrange. That's if your spring goes to full compression. This topic has been covered quite a bit, worth doing a Search. My opinion, the risk/reward thing goes up steeply when you use more than one buff. And don't use a soft one - unless you like DNFs. Edited April 19, 2005 by caspian28r Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cking Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 AS long as you don't have spring bind, which is not caused by buff's I don't believe any damage will result. Slide velocity, slide weight, slide travel all interact to control bullet feed. Two buff's reduced travel which reduces time for Mags to get another round up there to be feed. So if you don't ever have any feed problems or ejection problems. I guess there is no problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcoliver Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 Mcoliver, my guide rod is single piece SS that was drilled through to lighten it... nothing really special about it... Thanks again... Rgds <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ah, I see. thanks for the info. Btw, on the issue of spring bind, I opened up the holes in my buff so it rides over the spring. That way the end of the spring still gets to seat on the guide rod head instead of in the buff. But when I tried this technique on the thinner wilsons, I noted the buffs tend to "walk" away from the guide rod. Not sure if this has any detrimental effects though. The very thick one-piece buff I use now doesn't do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rush Posted April 20, 2005 Author Share Posted April 20, 2005 hmmm... I'll keep it in mind. Gun works perfectly with 1 and 2 buffs... so i'll keep it as is. Originally, I was using the recoil masters.. but after a DNF due to the RM fusing the cap and the spring together in a level 3 match.. got rid of that quickly and went back to the old SS Guide Rod and buffs... Tried the springco.. but it was a little to springy and would cause the dot to rear up at the rearmost portion of the cycle... too much trouble to sort out... Thanks again.... & Rgds, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pskys2 Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 "AHH, Back in the day............. In the early 90's with Comped, Iron Sighted Autos, one of the tricks with shok buffs was to add 1 or 2 extra to change the cycle stroke. Kind of fine tuned the front sight positioning (yea it took a while for everyone to go to optics). Did it work? It seemed too, at the time. But, maybe that had to do with all the practice trying to check it out. It seemed to loose traction when everyone started going to the Big Dots. And non-comped guns never seemed to benefit from such fine tuning. The guys who shot PPC, NRA Bullseye and such hated Shok Buffs, said they would screw up the feeding cycle. Rarely seemed to happen though. Think they just didn't like change. And that is almost a polar opposite to an "IPSCer". Check it out thoroughly, Practice till it feels right and then Do what Works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamBam Posted April 26, 2005 Share Posted April 26, 2005 I remember from the Jarrett class that he specifically liked shock buff for the reasons of reducing slide travel and making the gun cycle faster. Just make sure the spring is the corresponding correct length so as not to bind, and that you get enough rear slide action to eject properly. In theory shock buffs sound like a better idea than not, as long as the gun functions 100% reliably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rush Posted April 27, 2005 Author Share Posted April 27, 2005 My S_I guns all have extended ejectors... so no problem with kicking the shells out. One thing i noticed with extended ejectors, they kick shells out much farther than than the normal ones.... With a shorter travel and 8lb (open) and 12.5 lb (ltd) springs. the guns are snappier and easier to track when shooting fast... not had a jam since i ran this configuration so i'm happy Safe shooting all... Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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