JAF1680 Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 It looks like if you are shooting PCC you can shoot all targets on any course except frangible or a target set in the place of a clay on some ranges where clays may not be used. Does the PCC rule supersede a stage rule that says your handgun or shotgun must be fired or you get a procedural? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlhead Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 I am not a 3GN guru, so I would not try and guess the intent or proper application of the rules you are asking about. Have you tried to contact them directly to get an answer to your question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langenator Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Different PCC question: does the M1 carbine qualify as a PCC? (Why? Because it's a fun little gun, that's why.) I know of at least two pistols that were made that used .30 carbine ammo: Ruger made a version of the Redhawk, and AMT made a version of the Automag. Is that enough to qualify .30 carbine as a "center-fire pistol cartridge?" (Honestly, at most local matches, with no prizes at stake, I don't think anyone would care, and most shooters would probably think it was pretty cool/fun. 15 round mags may or may not be a disadvantage.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlhead Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Last I heard it was a PCC at the Ironman, but that was for trooper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moltke Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 I guess it depends on the match and match director Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan 45 Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Funny thing with the M1 carbine. I've shot them at local rifle matches before- people always accused me of using a PCC. Until you do the math- 30 Carbine has a higher power factor than 5.56. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlhead Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 twice the mass at 3/4 the velocity will do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Momentum (power factor) is not an indication of rather a cartridge is a rifle or a pistol caliber. The 30 carbine is a mixed breed while it was designed for use in carbines, the original concept of the M1 carbine was to replace the 1911 .45 acp pistol in the military. I would say its more in common with pistol calibers than traditional rifle calibers personally. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan 45 Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Pat, I'm not going to argue that. It's anemic for a long gun. But, so is 223. And no, I wouldn't want to be shot with either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiggerJJ Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 I'm thinking another new division, RCH Division. Stands for Rifle Caliber Handgun, of course... jj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Pat, I'm not going to argue that. It's anemic for a long gun. But, so is 223. And no, I wouldn't want to be shot with either. Not trying to argue with you just going over the history. A .223 is not anemic for what it was designed to do. An assault rifle cartridge. (Intermediate power between a subgun and a full power rifle.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlhead Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Can we agree that ballisticly 30 carbine is similar to 357 magnum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Far better a 30 carbine expanding round than a 223 out of an 11" barrel.... Not a guess!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Far better a 30 carbine expanding round than a 223 out of an 11" barrel.... Not a guess!!! An 11 inch barrel with a heavy 77 grain bullet going about 2200 fps would be my preference to any 30 carbine round. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 A 110 grain bullet at 2000 , or a 77 grain bullet at 2200??? Sounds decisive to me! Granted, one has a bit better penetration in Kevlar due to frontal area.....but not by much! One is way under rated due to folk lore......you call! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmiller Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Always wanted a 30 carbine, but never bought one. Was friends with a Korean War USMC vet who wanted to bring his back so he could piss on it every morning. It was an understatement to say he hated it. Then again, his favorite weapon for repelling attacks was a quad .50. I think the new super bullets might change his mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlhead Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 But .223 is a rifle, 30 carbine is a pistol caliber carbine. No steel challenge or USPSA for Pat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langenator Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 I guess it depends on the match and match director I think that's probably the answer. And that, at a local match with no prizes, nobody will care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Freeman Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Can we agree that ballisticly 30 carbine is similar to 357 magnum? No. This is the internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlhead Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 I stand corrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langenator Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 Can we agree that ballisticly 30 carbine is similar to 357 magnum? No. This is the internet. If we wanted to agree on something, we'd have a civil discussion in meatspace, over cigars and scotch. Or beers. Your choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlhead Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 Scotch, scotch, scotch, I love scotch. But I prefer a beer back, no cigar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgj3 Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 This thread sucks for the OP... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlhead Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 This thread sucks for the OP... Crying in his scotch right now. Not a single answer to his question in 5 days before I recommended he get in touch with 3GN directly. No one who has posted in this thread since has even touched on his question, and that would now include you as well. The mysteries of 3GN are beyond the grasp of the Enoverse.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langenator Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 Well the thread jacker is actually having a margarita tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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