Increase trigger weight, Stock 2

[mrd]

Here's a slightly backwards problem for you tanfoglio experts to solve, my trigger is too light!

My "new for me" second hand Stock 2 AU arrived this Friday. It came pretty much ready to race with Henning fiber optic front sight and all the xtreme bits. It was promised to have trigger weight to qualify for the Swedish shooting sports which require at least 1360 grams (=3 lbs) of trigger weight in SA. Unfortunately, this was not the case. The hammer springs that came with the pistol are the xtreme light and medium springs. With the light SA is about 1050 grams (=2 lbs 5 oz) and with the medium it's at 1160 (=2 lbs 9 oz).

What can I do to get to 3 lbs SA and what is the preferred way to do it? Would like to keep DA as low as possible while getting SA to qualify.

Edited December 1, 2015 by mrd

[BeerBaron]

Unfortunately most of what you do to increase the SA will actually increase the DA even more. especially hammer springs. hammer springs have the biggest effect on DA (as during DA the trigger has to cock the hammer). In SA as it just lifts the sear off the hammer hooks the hammer spring makes little difference.

I would keep the medium spring since that gets you close.

For the extra weight you need get a pack of trigger bar plunger tuning springs from henning (he makes some heavier than standard).

The other option is replace the trigger return spring with a brand new factory one as the current one may be worn and lighter. Other than that anything you do to increase weight will either have a negative effect on trigger feel and/or have a massive effect on DA trigger weight.

You can also try a brand new sear spring as the sear spring affects the SA pull but not really the DA.

I think:

new factory sear spring

near factory trigger return spring

henning trigger bar plunger spring that is heavier than standard

will solve it. The good news is the heavy trigger return spring and trigger bar plunger spring will help give it a nice strong and fast reset.

[johnbu]

I agree wth the baron, but would suggest first going with a new sear spring, then checking weight. The DA action does not use the sear, so that won't affect DA. Then trigger return spring and change the plunger springs starting w the lightest and checking.

You may find that a extra light sear spring has been fit, the trigger return spring is weak / light and the plunger spring may have coils cut.

After you get the SA up to minimum, you may be able to go to the "light" hammer spring to minimize DA pull with a new factory trigger spring and different plunger spring. While complex, juggling components may get you closer to your ideal.

[mrd]

Thanks, guys! Great answers!

There were a couple of spare springs that came with the gun. Unfortunately no sear or trigger return springs, so I'll have to acquire those. There were however, two trigger bar plunger springs marked 18 and 22 respectively, and the 22 seems heaviest. Could these be the Henning plunger springs?

As advised, I'll first try to change the sear spring to a new factory one. Or, are there any even heavier available?

How about trigger return springs? Any heavier than factory available?

[R.Elliott]

You could just bend the sear spring a bit to increase the tension. It will affect the d/a pull very slightly since the extra tension will increase pressure on the drag surface underneath the sear face (drags on the hammer). But you probably wouldn't even notice it. That tweak plus possibly a small tweak on the trigger return spring should get you there.

[johnbu]

Thanks, guys! Great answers!

There were a couple of spare springs that came with the gun. Unfortunately no sear or trigger return springs, so I'll have to acquire those. There were however, two trigger bar plunger springs marked 18 and 22 respectively, and the 22 seems heaviest. Could these be the Henning plunger springs?

As advised, I'll first try to change the sear spring to a new factory one. Or, are there any even heavier available?

How about trigger return springs? Any heavier than factory available?

Those are plunger springs from henning.

ONE IN STOCK

http://www.lastroundarmament.com/product/eaa-9-3-sear-spring/

Out of stock now

http://www.lastroundarmament.com/product/eaatanfoglio-witness-trigger-spring/

Cz trigger spring (will fit) in stock

http://cajungunworks.com/product/8-trg-return-spg-oem/

Edited December 1, 2015 by johnbu

[mrd]

Cz trigger spring (will fit) in stock

http://cajungunworks.com/product/8-trg-return-spg-oem/

My plunger springs have markings that match the Henning springs - it seems I have the 18# and 22# spring, so probably the 20# is installed in the gun.

Is the CZ trigger spring heavier than the Tanfoglio factory trigger spring?

Any suggestions on sear springs that are heavier than new stock/factory?

Edited December 1, 2015 by mrd

[C-Money]

Cz trigger spring (will fit) in stockhttp://cajungunworks.com/product/8-trg-return-spg-oem/

My plunger springs have markings that match the Henning springs - it seems I have the 18# and 22# spring, so probably the 20# is installed in the gun.

Is the CZ trigger spring heavier than the Tanfoglio factory trigger spring?

Any suggestions on sear springs that are heavier than new stock/factory?

My experience has been that the Tanfoglio springs are uniformly heavier (thicker wire & more coils) than CZ springs.

[johnbu]

Cz trigger spring (will fit) in stockhttp://cajungunworks.com/product/8-trg-return-spg-oem/

My plunger springs have markings that match the Henning springs - it seems I have the 18# and 22# spring, so probably the 20# is installed in the gun.

Is the CZ trigger spring heavier than the Tanfoglio factory trigger spring?

Any suggestions on sear springs that are heavier than new stock/factory?

My experience has been that the Tanfoglio springs are uniformly heavier (thicker wire & more coils) than CZ springs.

Interestingly, the cgw "light" trigger return springs i bought seems to have the same wire thickness and turns as the tanfo factory one. Did they send me the wrong one?

[C-Money]

Tanfoglio OEM springs on left, Cajun reduced TRS on right, CZ-75 OEM sear spring on bottom right.

[johnbu]

I quick measured a tanfo stock 2 and cgw reduced and got the same wire thickness.

Confused!

[Nealio]

I agree wth the baron, but would suggest first going with a new sear spring, then checking weight. The DA action does not use the sear, so that won't affect DA. Then trigger return spring and change the plunger springs starting w the lightest and checking.

This is incorrect, the sear is always disengaged during a trigger pull.

[johnbu]

Thanks

[Nealio]

What you want is to get more positive sear engagement on the hammer hooks. I don't know if this is beyond your skill set it not but increasing the forward angle of the face of the sear will give you a harder SA trigger pull and not effect your DA pull.

So if you are looking at the sear in the gun you would reshape the face on the blade of the sear so it angles very slightly back from the bottom to the top.

[mrd]

Nealio, that would be good to know how to do. Is this possible to do with a hand file? It would also be very helpful if there's a picture that would show how the angle should be changed for a more positive engagement. It would be very good to be able to use the light hammer spring while still be on the safe side with SA weight.

I've managed to get comfortably past 1360 grams of SA by changing to the original/factory plunger spring and tweaking the sear spring, this is with the xtreme medium hammer spring. Now I can even (barely) lift the 1360 gram weight with the xtreme light hammer spring installed, which gives a much more pleasant DA pull. A more positive sear engagement or a hammer spring with strength between the xtreme medium and light would take me right where I'd like to be.

Edited December 5, 2015 by mrd

[Mo Hepworth]

get new sear spring and trigger spring using the heavier Xtreme hammer spring...if that does not work, you may have to put a 16lb hammer spring in..but it increases the DA for sure. Another option is to put in a different sear,..The longer sears I have found lowered my single action ....

I tried a Limited Custom 1 piece sear in my Xtreme stock2,...ridiculously light, I would say under 2 lbs...closer to 1.5 lbs. ..with the sear that came in it,..it is about 2.5 lbs

[mrd]

Choice of oil and cleaning has a big effect too. Cleaning all the moving parts with brake cleaner and using thin aerosol oil increases trigger weight a lot. Using moly paste/grease gives a buttery smooth pull and the lightest pull, but on the expense of the crispiness when SA breaks. I've noticed the weight decreases as the gun gets dirty, I think the carbon remains from burnt gunpowder reduces the weight as it binds to the oil/grease. Cleaning the gun and using a thin oil before competition with a minimum trigger weight test is a good way to avoid DQ, in my experience.

I'm looking into making more positive sear engagement as Nealio proposed. That would make it possible to have the lightest DA setup and still qualify for SA minimum weight.

[Chris1911]

I have just purchased a Stock 2 Extreme. I need the SA trigger weight to be over 3.5 lbs and the DA trigger pull light as reasonably to avoid strike failure. I guess from the above that sear increasing sear spring weight is the answer?

Can anybody suggest where I can get a heavier sear spring?

 

[yigal]

On 12/1/2015 at 7:09 PM, Twinkie said:

My experience has been that the Tanfoglio springs are uniformly heavier (thicker wire & more coils) than CZ springs.

+1

On 12/5/2015 at 5:39 AM, Nealio said:

What you want is to get more positive sear engagement on the hammer hooks. I don't know if this is beyond your skill set it not but increasing the forward angle of the face of the sear will give you a harder SA trigger pull and not effect your DA pull.

So if you are looking at the sear in the gun you would reshape the face on the blade of the sear so it angles very slightly back from the bottom to the top.

+1

just try find regular sear. it has  more negative angle.

On 12/5/2015 at 10:13 AM, mrd said:

Nealio, that would be good to know how to do. Is this possible to do with a hand file? 

nooooooooooooooooooooo!

 

Edited October 15, 2017 by yigal

[SoCalShooter69]

7 hours ago, yigal said:

+1

+1

just try find regular sear. it has  more negative angle.

nooooooooooooooooooooo!

 

 

You realize these replies are from almost two years ago? There are a plethora of aftermarket parts that have become available since then... 

[yigal]

14 minutes ago, SoCalShooter69 said:

 

You realize these replies are from almost two years ago? There are a plethora of aftermarket parts that have become available since then... 

thank u.

not i didn't 

i have old and the newest  parts from tan. but not from us market.

9 hours ago, Chris1911 said:

I have just purchased a Stock 2 Extreme. I need the SA trigger weight to be over 3.5 lbs and the DA trigger pull light as reasonably to avoid strike failure. I guess from the above that sear increasing sear spring weight is the answer?

Can anybody suggest where I can get a heavier sear spring?

 

but this from today.

[Chris1911]

4 hours ago, SoCalShooter69 said:

 

You realize these replies are from almost two years ago? There are a plethora of aftermarket parts that have become available since then... 

 Yes thanks I do. I guess I should have started a new thread. I am hoping someone has a current day solution. Cheers. (I will not be touching my sear but maybe the spring?)

Edited October 15, 2017 by Chris1911

[SoCalShooter69]

15 minutes ago, Chris1911 said:

 Yes thanks I do. I guess I should have started a new thread. I am hoping someone has a current day solution. Cheers. (I will not be touching my sear but maybe the spring?)

 

Get a sample pack from Patriot Defense. I'm certain you'll get what you need and still maintain a smooth trigger. 

[johnbu]

You probably have a Titan hammer in a new extreme version.  Replacing it with an old style (solid or single hole, not heart shape) hammer will give you taller hooks.  You will probably need to revert to the 2 piece sear . Might have to replace the firing pin block too.

 

That should up sa.

[MemphisMechanic]

I’d agree with Johnbu.

 

For the record, the difference between a 10 pound “only eats federals” hammer spring and a 16.5lb EGW Medium spring that crushes everything? Half a pound in single action.

 

The hammer spring doesn’t matter too terribly much in SA - it tunes your DA trigger weight.

 

Sear & trigger springs, and the sear/hammer engagement, are probably going to be where you create your heavier single-action pull.