BigPapa Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Well this Saturday was my first USPSA shoot and my first go at reloading 38 super.For the shoot I reloaded all my 38 super to about 1250 fps (Chronographed) using 115 JHP as well as starline rimless brass. This was with the maximum powder the manufacturer recommended.I was told during my shoot that I need to reload well above the manufactures specified values.I currently have an Open gun and need to hit Major Power Factor; 165 I believe.I was wondering if anyone would give me some pointers on the best powders, bullets, and primer combinations. From what Ive read I should use a light bullet (JHP prefered) with a slow burning powder as well as use small rifle primers due to the increased pressures of the minimum 165 power factor. I'm adding pictures of my gun and barrels since it appears the porting orientation seems to make a difference. It would appear I need more posts before I can post pictures, but I have an STI pistol with 2 ported barrels. The first barrel has 3 large ports on top and 1 small verticle on each side near the rear. The second barrel has 4 large ports on top, as well as 2 small round ports near the rear. Has 2 verticle ports on each side near the end of the barrel. I'll post as soon as I'm able. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigPapa Posted September 9, 2015 Author Share Posted September 9, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 First, welcome to the forum. Now, onto your question, which in itself, asks a question...what powder are you currently using? With 1250fps, you are WAY under power factor. .. Small rifle primers are not absolutely necessary, depending on the powder, so... As for MJ PF, it's velocity x bullet weight ÷ 1000. So, 1250 velocity with a 115jhp is around 143 pf...you need to be around 170 pf... As for load, the barrel you have in your gun is similar to mine, and I run 10.5 - 10.6 grains of VV N105 at 1.235 with a Win spmp and a MG 115 jhp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigPapa Posted September 10, 2015 Author Share Posted September 10, 2015 Ive been using Hercules Unique smokeless pistol and shotgun powder. I have less than a pound of it and its just what I had laying around at the time. As for primers I've been using cci500 but am just finishing up the last of them. I do have around 12,000 Fiocchi Small Pistol Primers I purchased for reloading 9mm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgj3 Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Pretty sure Unique is a bit too fast for this purpose. VV3n37 and 3n38 Autocomp Silhouette HS-6 Others in that same burn speed range... Do a search on here for "Open powder" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigPapa Posted September 10, 2015 Author Share Posted September 10, 2015 (edited) Can you shed some insight on why burn speed matters. This is the first reloading I've personally done. Edit: Found this: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=110817&hl=open+powder#entry1258196 Edited September 10, 2015 by BigPapa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 A slower burn rate generally means a bulkier powder. A bulkier powder means more needs to be stuffed in the case to get the same velocity. More powder stuffed in the case means more gas to work the comp. More gas to work the comp means a flatter shooting pistol. Too fast of a powder, and the pressure spike will cause issues with pierced primers, flattened primers, blown cases, etc. Too slow a powder and you will have incomplete burn and not make power factor. Longshot is a decent powder to start with, easy to find (usually), cheaper than N105, and uses a high charge weight. Also, look up 38 super ipsc loads on google...there are several good pages of loads there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark R Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 (edited) Here's my current load... Starline Brass 38 SC 115 gr 9mm Montana Gold JHP 9.3-9.4 gr HS-6 CCI 400 Small Rifle Primers 1.230 OAL 172 PF Std Dev 8-11 Edited to add: Running Super Comp in a STI Trubor gun, no holes. Edited September 10, 2015 by Mark R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigPapa Posted September 10, 2015 Author Share Posted September 10, 2015 Well I picked up a few pounds of 3n38 from what I was reading it seems to have quite a few followers. Will I have any issues shooting 115gr jhp, or should I bump up my bullet weight? Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 115 bullets are good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 If you're new at this, I wouldn't try to make Major (165+) right away. Take it slow, and reload some 10% off recommended loads, and YES, I'd try the 124 grain bullets, at least at the beginning. Have you been reloading anything? Any other calibers? Or is this a first? You CANNOT reload .38 to Major without a chrono!!! Don't even try it!!!!! Start out slowly, buy a chrono, and read the old postings here - go to FORUMS (top left of your screen), then scroll down to reloading, and then down to 9mm/.38 super. Then, spend a half hour reading - you'll gain five years experience in a half hour. When you load to Major, you also have to worry about OAL and bullet setback. Both are potential land mines. Welcome aboard, and hope you enjoy yourself as much as I have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lneel Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 I shoot 115gr bullets in my Infinity IMM open gun with 4 large holes in the barrel. For your gun I would suggest a starting load of 10.2grs of 3N38 at 1.250" OAL. You will probably have to go up from there but that will get you in the ballpark. Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superdude Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Below are some sources of information about loading .38 Super that you might find of interest. Some gunpowders will make Major PF and still remain within standard pressure limits. 3N38 will do that, and is a great choice. Get Vihtavuori's load manual and look under data for .38 Super Lapua. It is the same as .38 Super Comp brass - a rimless version of .38 Super. http://www.shootingtimes.com/reloading/super-powders-for-the-38-super/ http://38super.net/Pages/Major.html http://38super.net/Pages/Gunpowder.html http://38super.net/Pages/Recoil.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigPapa Posted September 10, 2015 Author Share Posted September 10, 2015 If you're new at this, I wouldn't try to make Major (165+) right away. Take it slow, and reload some 10% off recommended loads, and YES, I'd try the 124 grain bullets, at least at the beginning. Have you been reloading anything? Any other calibers? Or is this a first? You CANNOT reload .38 to Major without a chrono!!! Don't even try it!!!!! Start out slowly, buy a chrono, and read the old postings here - go to FORUMS (top left of your screen), then scroll down to reloading, and then down to 9mm/.38 super. Then, spend a half hour reading - you'll gain five years experience in a half hour. When you load to Major, you also have to worry about OAL and bullet setback. Both are potential land mines. Welcome aboard, and hope you enjoy yourself as much as I have. I've reloaded shotgun in the past but this is the first time I've tried my hand at pistol. As for a chrono, I'm set. The main thing I'm worried about at this point is overall length and setback. With overall length reliability becomes an issue. As for setback, bad things can happen if too much. Below are some sources of information about loading .38 Super that you might find of interest. Some gunpowders will make Major PF and still remain within standard pressure limits. 3N38 will do that, and is a great choice. Get Vihtavuori's load manual and look under data for .38 Super Lapua. It is the same as .38 Super Comp brass - a rimless version of .38 Super. http://www.shootingtimes.com/reloading/super-powders-for-the-38-super/ http://38super.net/Pages/Major.html http://38super.net/Pages/Gunpowder.html http://38super.net/Pages/Recoil.html I'll be sure to take a look tonight thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ano Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 I love 3n38 and n105, safe powders, and for me at least, cheap, especially 3n38 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 "safe load" is 124 grain over 6.5 gr WAC - work up to 6.7 -7.0 grains. Nice load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Open1215 Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Setback is an issue. I had a Accurate Arms #7 and a 115g loaded that the bullet got pushed back a bit when I 1st started. The chrono showed over 2000fps. It was way louder then anything normal. Thankfully the brass held up! That being said. With 3n38 or just with comped guns I double plug. It is LOUD. Wear inner and outer ear protection. It helps a bit. 3n38 will/ can produce fireballs. Big ones. Lol I love it. I really like 3n38 as well as VV N105. I've noticed that with 3n38 and 105 the setback isn't too much of an issue as the case is very full. 10.5g of 3n38 under a 115g jhp is my load. It will flatten primers. It will pop a big fireball. It will be LOUD and if you are indoors watch out for florescent light bulbs... expecially if you have poppet holes... if you can seat the bullet tight enough to not extend the OAL once seated, you are set. Plated bullets I used a slight taper crimp. .379-.378 nothing more. Jackets I just switched to and got a new die set, I can't recall my crimp but I haven't has any issues. Load, then take the bullet and push firm on the top. No movement you should be ok. Too much crimp is really bad too. So don't over do it. I also push on the bullets as I load them into the mags. Just as a final precaution. Good luck! I think you will enjoy 38 super! My load listed is in supercomp brass. This data is for information only. Start lower and work up for your gun. Also Google 38 super ipsc load list. Lots of good info there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrRick Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Was going to start a similar thread, but since this is here I might add some questions that the OP might find useful. The wife just ordered a DVC in 38 Sup. Been reloading 38 Sup for my Tanfoglio Witness Steel for a while so I have plenty of brass. 80% of my brass was brand new Starline but it isn't +P brass. Was wondering if the regular 38 Sup brass is strong enough to handle the pressures of 38 major? Yes I have a chrono. What is the recommended crimp for 38 major. I'm currently crimping it to .377 if I remember correctly. I'm using Xtreme plated bullets for my Tan but plan on using Zero or MG for the DVC. Any luck with using CFE Pistol? Got plenty of this powder. Plan on testing 115 and 124 pills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigPapa Posted October 13, 2015 Author Share Posted October 13, 2015 (edited) Setback is an issue. I had a Accurate Arms #7 and a 115g loaded that the bullet got pushed back a bit when I 1st started. The chrono showed over 2000fps. It was way louder then anything normal. Thankfully the brass held up! That being said. With 3n38 or just with comped guns I double plug. It is LOUD. Wear inner and outer ear protection. It helps a bit. 3n38 will/ can produce fireballs. Big ones. Lol I love it. I really like 3n38 as well as VV N105. I've noticed that with 3n38 and 105 the setback isn't too much of an issue as the case is very full. 10.5g of 3n38 under a 115g jhp is my load. It will flatten primers. It will pop a big fireball. It will be LOUD and if you are indoors watch out for florescent light bulbs... expecially if you have poppet holes... if you can seat the bullet tight enough to not extend the OAL once seated, you are set. Plated bullets I used a slight taper crimp. .379-.378 nothing more. Jackets I just switched to and got a new die set, I can't recall my crimp but I haven't has any issues. Load, then take the bullet and push firm on the top. No movement you should be ok. Too much crimp is really bad too. So don't over do it. I also push on the bullets as I load them into the mags. Just as a final precaution. Good luck! I think you will enjoy 38 super! My load listed is in supercomp brass. This data is for information only. Start lower and work up for your gun. Also Google 38 super ipsc load list. Lots of good info there! Thanks! At the moment I don't have a taper crimp die but I'll find out if I need one soon enough, as I'm getting my new dillon setup. At the moment I'm shopping for some different bullets in a variety of weights to see what my gun and I like the best. Would I have any leading issues shooting plated bullets? (Barrel or Comp Leading) If they're plated do they need to be JHP since the whole advantage of JHP is that their jacketed from the bottom up? Is there any real advantage with using strictly jacketed bullets? Lastly do you have any bullet recommendations? Edited October 13, 2015 by BigPapa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Open1215 Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 If you are getting small orders get xtreme bullets. Great stuff. 250 or 500 packs. Discount here N there. just good stuff. Get on the email list. They will tell you when and what's on sale. Plated will not give you leading. Problem solved. JHP: the reason is they punch a nice clean hole on paper. Same idea as a wad cutter. They also hit steel and "from what I've been told" won't ricochet as bad. Once you find something you and your gun love, montana gold is the way to go. JHP. In a 4000 count case. Free shipping and they are cheaper for 4k from them then 4k from Xtreme. If you don't want to get that many at one time xtreme is the way to go. Keep an eye out for gift certificates to prize tables. Also the sale adds on the classifieds. Ppl who have no need for bullet certs sell them here lots. Normally 70-75$ for 100$ in bullets. I like 115g. More powder more gas. I use them in 9 and 38. I had 124g when I had to load 9mm short for a glock. Went to super and tried them. The shot great but once I used 10g 3n38 under a 115 I was sold. A bit more powder was my sweet spot. You will find what your gun and your shooting likes. Get a 500 124 and 500 115g work a load w the same powder and close pf for both. Shoot side by side. When it clicks you will know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmmoGuy Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Do Not use plated bullets in a comped gun, stops any chance of the plating pulling off and lodging at the comp. This is only a rule mine, stick to JHP also to reduce leading in the comp. As far a powder goes, HS6, 3N38, Acc7 works, as a few others tough choice as to which you prefer to feel and recoil. I prefer HS6 with 115JHP in my comped 38S Caspain. Have fun and be safe is the rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray_Z Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Been using 9.0 of 3n37 behind a 115gr .355 bullet and Winchester srp for a long time. I tried 3n38. If I remember right it took a bit more to get the same velocity. Only problem I had with 3n38 was in cold weather I got a huge brilliant white muzzle flash every 8-10 rounds. It ain't broke, I'm not going to fix it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towely Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 8.8gr of adi ap100 using 124gr frontier flat points at 1.253" and cci small pistol primers, no flare no crimp no set back. Powerfactor is sitting at 168. Does the job. Got some 3n38 to try as well as it seems to be popular. I use super cases, not comp. Welcome to the wonderful world of open guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Open1215 Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Ap100 is Euro/ Auz powder right? Are you in the US? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towely Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 (edited) Yes its an australian powder, sorry should have mentioned that. I figure that it may help someone out if they search for ap100 loads in this forum, as i have tried to do in the past. You guys dont see many adi powders in the states? Edited October 13, 2015 by Towely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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