A couple of firsts, including a squib

[MissionaryMike]

First, the squib:

I was at the range a couple of days ago shooting some reloads I bought from Automatic Accuracy. Ended up having a squib load getting stuck in the barrel about half way into my 3rd magazine. I was practicing close range double taps. This was the first time I've ever had a squib load during a range session. Not recognizing it as it happened, I pulled the trigger 2 more times thinking I had experienced a light strike, which I had previously in that range session, but no bang. I called the range officer for assistance, and he wasn't sure what was wrong also. He cleared the chamber and test fired the gun twice. Both times, the hammer went off, but no bang. He locked the slide back and noticed the squib. He removed the gun from the firing line, brought it back to the in-house gunsmith, and brought the gun and squib back to me after it was dislodged. I was able to finish my range session with no more issues. For the record, I'm not blaming AA for the squib, as there could have been multiple variables at play that caused it. I have a considerable amount of those reloads left and will continue to use them until every last one of them is shot.

So, I've gone online and watched a couple of youtube videos on the causes of a squib load. I've come to trust this forum and its members' advice. So, I have to ask, are squib loads, in fact, dangerous enough to blow up a gun in the user's hand if the trigger/hammer continues to be pressed, as both I and and the RO did? If so, what could have prevented successive rounds from firing into the rear of the bullet that was stuck in the barrel, considering we did pull the trigger a few more times? Did the RO safely handle the situation, or should he have checked for the squib before test firing the gun himself? Lastly, with the inherent danger of shooting a gun w/ a squib load, how could one possibly double tap targets and expect himself to not pull the trigger that second time before recognizing a squib?

---------------------------------

On another note:

I did load my first batch of reloads (ever). They are 147gr BBI flat nose / 3.2gr n320 / Federal spp. I tried loading these up to an OAL of 1.135. However, in measuring all 50 loads, the variance was quite wide, from 1.310-1.390. Assuming the powder charge remained consistent, how much performance and accuracy loss am I going to experience here. Would there be any dangers in shooting the cartridges that have the shorter OAL with that same powder charge? I guess the squib has me a little paranoid.

Thank you for reading the stupidly long post,

MM

Edited August 18, 2015 by MissionaryMike

[Youngeyes]

My guess is that the bullet was lodged close enough in the barrel to prevent another round from chambering. If someone asked my help, I would have, dropped the mag,checked clear and barrel checked it before I tried firing it. If a round did chamber and go off, you would have blown the gun. Now that you are reloading, you are in full control of preventing any further squibs. I can't speak to your OAL variance issues without more info. I would say that loading to 1.135 and getting 1.310-1.390 is way off. If anything, your gun may not run on the longer rounds. They certainly won't be over powered.

[MissionaryMike]

My guess is that the bullet was lodged close enough in the barrel to prevent another round from chambering. If someone asked my help, I would have, dropped the mag,checked clear and barrel checked it before I tried firing it. If a round did chamber and go off, you would have blown the gun. Now that you are reloading, you are in full control of preventing any further squibs. I can't speak to your OAL variance issues without more info. I would say that loading to 1.135 and getting 1.310-1.390 is way off. If anything, your gun may not run on the longer rounds. They certainly won't be over powered.

What, would you say, is an acceptable OAL range when loading your own ammo? The only thing that I can assume is that, as a novice, I'm not applying consistent pressure on every stroke of the ram/lever.

[Flash74]

Unless I am mistaken I think he meant the rounds were 1.131 to 1.139 and he was trying for 1.135. If you are really getting 1.310-1.390 then you have some long loaded rounds. I don't think a variation of 8 thousandths is that bad, but it could be tightened up. Make sure your seating die has the proper profiled seater that matches your bullet tips. I get the most variation when I am running the wrong seater. Also make sure you run the handle on the press all the way to the stop points firmly, but don't beat up the press. I usually vary 5 thousandths on my rounds, anywhere from 1.158 to 1.162 when I am trying for 1.160.

[dave33]

Maybe Im not reading your post correctly. If you chamber and fire a live round into the back of a blocked barrel, such as a bullet stuck from a squib, yes you can blow the gun up. Usually the barrel bulges and redirects the gas backwards into other places, such as down the magazine well, and depending on the gun/load/circumstance it could cause a bad stinger in the hand or possibly need stitches or worse, lots of variables there. When you say you and the RO test fired the gun twice and no bang, Im getting lost. Did the round not chamber or was it a dud? Either way, if you are going to be shooting rapidly you need to develop enough trigger disipline to be able to stop yourself in the event of a squib, or any other problem that may arise.

As far as your reloads go, you will always get some variance in OAL. There are simply too many variables at play to be spot on all the time. The brass will vary slightly, coated bullets will vary slightly, your press will also torque a little depending on all the variables going on it at the same time. I shoot 3.2 N320 over 147gr coated lead often and have shot that load down to 1.09 OAL with certain bullets, and with a profile similar to the BBI have gone down to 1.125, so you have some room to play.

[Sarge]

Sounds like the gun was out of battery enough to release the hammer and the pin was not reaching the primer. You absolutely can blow a gun up doing this. I think you and the "RO" got extremely lucky

[RDA]

I agree with Youngeyes and Sarge, the lodged bullet wasn't allowing the next round to fully chamber (out of battery). I had a similar situation recently with 300BLK where the second round was a squib and the third and fourth rounds wouldn't chamber so I pulled it apart to see what was happening and found the bullet lodged at the beginning of the rifling.

By the way, this was with factory Sig Sauer 300BLK 220g Match Subsonic ammo. I took the remaining 58 unfired rounds and found three of them to have no powder which I am certain is what went wrong with the "squib", the primer alone pushed the bullet into the barrel but not far enough to allow the next round to chamber. I'd be the same happened to you (a round without powder).

[safeactionjackson]

You and the RO got lucky (just for a little additional emphasis), and it sounds like the issue may have been diagnosed by others already so I'll leave that alone.

Couple things:

1. It was the reloading companies fault.... as squibs are usually associated with zero powder being dropped into the case (100% in my case).

2. Not all range staff are created equal (knowledge will very from expert level competitive shooter who reloads, too part time employe who doesn't even own a gun).

3. You.... and only you are responsible for your safety.

4. Know and understand squibs as well as your ammo, generally squibs feel very different, and you will know it fast, but maybe not "double tap" fast YMMV.

5. Squib rod, get one, you will make mistakes when reloading.... pay attention, and be prepared in the event you need to deal with one.

6. There are two types of shooters/reloaders, those that have had squibs..... and those that will (motorcycle analogy, but you get the point).

Be careful and take your time when reloading, if you notice anything that feels wrong, stop and trouble shoot. Also if you make a mistake, stop and check every stage to ensure you avoid making a mistake that could potentially cause you, and your weapon harm(assuming you are using a progressive). When in doubt, stop and check.

I reload 9mm to OAL 1.140 with same head stamp brass..... usually see 3-5 thousand max.

~g

[gerritm]

Yes, you can blow up the barrel and I did. I had the exact same thing happen to my rifle. During a 3-gun match on a supported barricade I was shooting my 69gr .223 reloads and had a failure. Did not hear the usual poof sound of a squib. We know that sound. Many shooters around me including the RO, no one heard anything. Gun went click, instinct was to rack the round out, did that and it went click again, racked another and the same. Put a new mag in with factory 55gr ammo and racked the round in, pulled the trigger and it went bang and blew the barrel apart. We figured I had a squib and it prevented the rounds from seating far enough to fire, but enough to release the trigger. When I put the factory 55gr in, the round was a little shorter OAL and loaded enough to fire. Destroyed the barrel, but no damage to the upper or lower. Round stuck in the very end of the barrel near the comp so most of the force was up there. It caused a few abrasions and a pretty good stinger to my hand.

You were lucky the rounds didn't seat, if it had been a pistol the damage could have been much worse. I pay much more attention to my reloads from this.

gerritm

[sfinney]

As a side note, for those doing their own reloading, depending on your machine/process, I would be more worried about the other bullet in the batch that had the double charge in it possibly.

If you ever have a squib, its good to stop shooting that batch of ammo til you determine you did not drop a double charge in another case.... just clearing the current squib does not mean you are out of the woods quite yet.

[Youngeyes]

As a side note, for those doing their own reloading, depending on your machine/process, I would be more worried about the other bullet in the batch that had the double charge in it possibly.

If you ever have a squib, its good to stop shooting that batch of ammo til you determine you did not drop a double charge in another case.... just clearing the current squib does not mean you are out of the woods quite yet.

I've thought about this, and can't come up with a scenario where a squib meant you double charged a different round. Can you elaborate please?

[safeactionjackson]

I'd worry about a double charge if I was running a manually indexed progressive (550b), but I'd be less concerned on a press that auto indexes (650/1050). On the latter, no/low powder charge is probably a more common occurrence, therefor posing a greater risk.... at least in my eyes.

When in doubt, stop and check all stations.

These mistake are completely avoidable.... unless you are a slow learner. In that case, add you equipment to the classified at a 50% discount

~g

[MissionaryMike]

Thanks for the diagnoses and counsel. I will certainly be very careful reloading my own ammo, as I'm very new to this. I'm using a Lee Classic Turret Press, so I'll be extra careful with each load. Heck, I can't even load OAL consistently yet. Kind of annoying.

As for the squib, from the sound of it, I was indeed fortunate to not have successive rounds able to seat. I'll count my blessings tonight.