DJPoLo Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 I emailed my favorite NROI instructor, but I thought I'd also post this question here for discussion: In looking at proposed stages for an upcoming club match, I, as Range Master, have a couple of questions: Can individual scoring poppers on a stage be painted different colors? 4.1.2.2 seems to indicate "Yes" as long as each popper is painted a solid color. Can poppers in a classifier stage be painted different colors as above? I found no rule which said that they MUST be painted white, only that it was preferable (again 4.1.2.2). Thanks in advance, -Chet TY16801 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tman33_99 Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 There are two camps, those that say all poppers on a stage must be the same color, and those that say each popper must be one color, but every popper on stage doesn't have to be the same color. (i.e. they can be red, white, blue, green, pink, but no barber poles or candy canes). Personally I am in the 2nd camp. We pretty well beat this one to death in this thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
short_round Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 I heard a story once of some open-gun-haters painting the steel with a white background and red polka dots. The other fun thing for anti-dot people is to use orange snow fence as soft cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJPoLo Posted March 16, 2005 Author Share Posted March 16, 2005 Just to add some additional clarification info: The idea from the upcoming Match Director here is not to penalize any division, but to create a theme for the match. To maintain the proposed theme of the match, it would be very appealing to have a stage that has six poppers each painted a different color. Interestingly, CM 03-05 has precisely the right amount of poppers and is quite straight forward in its procedure. -Chet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 Interestingly, CM 03-05 has precisely the right amount of poppers and is quite straight forward in its procedure.-Chet Start on the paper..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJPoLo Posted March 16, 2005 Author Share Posted March 16, 2005 Interestingly, CM 03-05 has precisely the right amount of poppers and is quite straight forward in its procedure.-Chet Start on the paper..... Nik, Paper, then poppers. I assume you mean in the preferential way to shoot the classifier. Cool. Good advice. But... Is there a rule stating that the poppers on any classifier must all be painted the same color (or "colour" for the rest of the world)? -Chet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 Chet, I don't read anything in the rule book that prevents you from painting poppers different colors ---- but it could create problems for any colorblind shooters out there....... Personally, I'd prefer to see solid stage design and construction ---- I could care less about themes. But that's me....... And yes -- when it comes time to shoot 03-05, start on the paper, then transition to steel....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 I know we have a thread on this somewhere...I see if I can dig it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TriggerT Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 White poppers are REALLY great when you are shooting outdoors and there is snow covering the backstop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 OK...didn't find the thread (that seems to be a first). Anyway. The rules seems to be pretty clear: 4.1.2 Scoring targets used in all IPSC Handgun matches must be of a single color, as follows: 4.1.2.2 The entire front of scoring metal targets must be painted a single color, preferably white. So: Can individual scoring poppers on a stage be painted different colors? NO, according to 4.1.2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJPoLo Posted March 16, 2005 Author Share Posted March 16, 2005 OK...didn't find the thread (that seems to be a first). Well, there's this one that Tman33_99 listed in the first reply in this thread. -Chet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJPoLo Posted March 16, 2005 Author Share Posted March 16, 2005 Anyway. The rules seems to be pretty clear: Actually, I don't think this is written very clearly at all. If it said: " All scoring targets used in IPSC Handgun matches must be of a single color..." Then, it would be very clear. The way it's currently written appears, to me, to be open to interpretation. -Chet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistral404 Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 At a recent match, I painted all the poppers the same color-green. I forgot that my front sight fiber was green. Short Round I really like your color scheme-white with red dots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 Anyway. The rules seems to be pretty clear: Actually, I don't think this is written very clearly at all. If it said: " All scoring targets used in IPSC Handgun matches must be of a single color..." Then, it would be very clear. The way it's currently written appears, to me, to be open to interpretation. -Chet OK...maybe the wording isn't great. It might have been more clear under the Red book? Regardless... The rule says. "scoring targets". I don't know that adding the word "all" would make that any better. Either it's a scoring target of it is not, right? That is pretty cut and dried to me. (I would think that they don't include penalty targets in that...so that you can paint an X on them if you choose.) And, the other part is "single color". We could say that it might be more clear if it said "solid single color", but that is redundant. If you have a "single color", there is no other way for the target to be painted in any other manner than "solid". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carinab Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 As the book reads now, I agree with Flex. Back in the day when limited was on it's way to becoming a separate division, it was very common for all poppers to be painted the same tan/brown as the dirt backstop. Not just at the local level either, I went to a West Coast championship where all the poppers were brown/tan...not nice for limited shooters at all.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 Wouldn't steel painted to match the berm be disadvantageous to *all* shooters (not just Limited shooters)??? It's not like the dot makes things standout against the background any better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFlowers Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 Actually, under the interpretation that 4.1.2 means that ALL scoring targets be a single color, wouldn't poppers have to be brown? I mean otherwise you would have paper in brown and steel in white and then ALL scoring targets are not a single color. So does 4.1.2.2 directly contridict 4.1.2 by recommending that steel be white. And penalties targets are "scored" so they should be the same color as everything else. Looks like the shoot the brown paper, don't shoot the white paper, shoot the white steel match philosphy is illegal. Thats why I think what 4.1.2 actually means is that EACH scoring target should be of a solid color, no candy stripes, polka dots, etc, but not necessarily all of the same color. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 I am kind of remembering that rule was written to eliminate the "barber pole" (sorry Flex)steel that was popular a few years ago. It could have been the more "ORNATE" stages that a colorful popper would get lost in. It is not worded correctly. I remember they created a stir among the natives. The reason is really so you know for sure that "color" is scoring and "white is no-shoot Personally I could care less if its camo, barber pole, desert sand, or hot pink since its the same challenge for all shooters. Ten colors on a stage too would be cool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Hangin' Chad Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 I have to agree with JFlowers interpretation on this. I have attended a State match where (out of 9 or 10 stages) one stage had all white steel, one was all red, one was all blue and one was all green. I didn't here anybody complain. Just my $.02. THC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 OK...didn't find the thread (that seems to be a first).Anyway. The rules seems to be pretty clear: 4.1.2 Scoring targets used in all IPSC Handgun matches must be of a single color, as follows: 4.1.2.2 The entire front of scoring metal targets must be painted a single color, preferably white. So: Can individual scoring poppers on a stage be painted different colors? NO, according to 4.1.2 Actually, I would say that the rule specifically calls for the face of a particular target to be a single color, but is silent on whether or not you can use more than one color on a stage. Read carefully; The entire front of metal targets must be painted a single color. OK, All targets? It doesn't say that, it only says the front must be a single color. It does say preferably "White", and I don't have too big a problem, except when it snows. Also white is the color of a N/S. I'd rather see Beige to match cardboard for the shoots and white for NS, with black being reserved for hardcover. Consistancy is a good thing, sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 Scoring targets...must be of...a...single...color Regardless of how you want to read the rule... As a stage designer...you have to ask yourself what you are trying to accomplish. I am of the school of, "let's test the shooting." If you have to explain the targets in the stage briefing, then maybe your design isn't putting the shooting at the top of the list? Pretty stages are nice, but I put cosmetics down the list quite a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 If scoring targets must be of a single color....it kinda seems like we should be painting steel brown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carinab Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 Which I would be dead set against....A dot does have an advantage if the poppers are brown/tan. The focal point is the dot ON the steel not your front site with the steel blurred behind it. Start putting four or five steel at 20yards like I was seeing back around 90, 91, 92, and it is a PITA to find them and transition. On a slight drift, doesn't hard cover count as a different color (black) on a scoring target? I'm sure it's specified someplace in the book but I shot a stage at a local club that had hard cover suite of card symbols on the paper targets (diamond or two here, a spade or heart there). Is that addressed anywhere in the new rule book? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tman33_99 Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 Until Sedro Woolley clarifies differently, I will always ensure that each popper is painted a single color. One may be gold, one may be pink, one may be blue etc, and I believe this fits the rules. I try to avoid red, green, black, and brown because those tend to get lost in the sights or the background of the berm. If I must change, they will all end up being painted parking lot stripe yellow forever more, but until that day, I am going to stay flexible and try to put on the best matches I can for my club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 Tman33_99, Why do you think that painting steel differwent colors equates to putting on the "best matches" for your club??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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