66L Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 I'm trying to put my 627 back together and having a bit of trouble. When the hammer, trigger, and cylinder stop are put in the action cycles fine by hand (cylinder is out, pulling back on the release with my finger). I put the rebound slide in and things still work great, very smooth in fact. As soon as I put the main spring in and tighten it even a little bit, there is a significant amount of resistance about half way through the trigger stroke, and becomes more so when the main spring is fully tightened. I can still pull the trigger with effort, but something is going on that just isn't right. To my untrained eye it looks like the problem lies between the front of the trigger as it pulls down the cylinder stop and the point it releases it. Everything works fine until I put the main spring in and start to tighten it. Not sure pictures would help, but I can post some if necessary. Any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alecmc Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 what about with main spring in ( at tension ) and the cylinder open ( pull cylinder release back to cycle action with cylinder open ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosshoss Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 What were you doing to the gun? Did you make any Changes? Remove the cylinder stop and see if it still does it. Sounds like the sear is to short and not handing off properly. Did you polish or stone the end of the sear? Check mainspring for contact with hammer from shortened strain screw. (Knuckling) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toolguy Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 (edited) It sounds like you are doing this with the sideplate off. If that is the case, you may have parts that have worked their way slightly upward out of the frame. All parts have to be pushed firmly all the way down for the action to cycle. On the guns with machined parts, the back end of the cylinder stop has to fit down the slot in the top of the trigger. If the parts are slightly misaligned the cyl. stop hangs on the top of the trigger. Edited July 8, 2015 by Toolguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
66L Posted July 8, 2015 Author Share Posted July 8, 2015 When the main spring is in, is when the problem shows up. I'm starting to think it is the sear. When I take the sear out it functions smoothly. When I try the opposite and take the cylinder stop out, the problem is still there. I very lightly polished the rear of the trigger, left the sear alone, other than wiping it off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toolguy Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Check to see if the second part of the DA on the back of the trigger is hitting the bottm part of the hammer instead of sliding smoothly under it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
66L Posted July 8, 2015 Author Share Posted July 8, 2015 It's hard to tell. That's where the resistance starts and by the time you squeeze hard enough to pull the trigger, things kind of jump into place. So the gun would still fire, it just has an atrocious hiccup in the middle of the pull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alecmc Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 posting a picture of the whole action at the point where it's locking up might help too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pskys2 Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Make sure you have the side plate on when checking it. If not you risk breaking a hammer or trigger pin, and it can change the geometry. Also when a main spring doesn't have enough arch you can get what's called knuckling and it acts like what you describe. Try putting the side plate on and at least one screw in, doesn't have to be real tight, then tighten the main spring tension screw all the way seated. If it's just knuckling then the pull will be clean all the way. It may still need to have the springs tuned to get the optimum pull and that's trial and error and personal preference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
66L Posted July 8, 2015 Author Share Posted July 8, 2015 I tired all of your suggestions (which I greatly appreciate) to no avail. I don't have an extra sear, so as a last ditch effort I pulled the hammer assembly from a 625. It dropped right in and was perfectly smooth. I previously tried different hammers with the original sear, of which I have several and experienced the problem. Process of elimination says the sear is the issue. To my naked eye, and calipers, the 625 sear (good) looks identical to my 627 sear (bad). Clearly I changed the geometry in some small but important way. I'll order a new sear and see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatJones Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Your 627 parts may work in the 625. Every gun is an individual. It's worth trying before you order parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 (edited) When the main spring is in, is when the problem shows up. I'm starting to think it is the sear. When I take the sear out it functions smoothly. When I try the opposite and take the cylinder stop out, the problem is still there. Does sound like the DA sear isn't fitted right. I'll order a new sear and see what happens. That is a fitted part. The Kuhnhausen manual has a good write up on how to fit it. Edited July 10, 2015 by bountyhunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnRodriguez Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 (edited) be careful with pulling the trigger without the side plate installed, you will break the trigger stud with heavy enough pressure on the trigger. check that the spring on the cylinder stop is lined up properly. it could be stacking and that will make the trigger hard to pull Edited July 11, 2015 by JohnRodriguez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
66L Posted July 24, 2015 Author Share Posted July 24, 2015 To follow up with this, I called S&W customer service and they sent me a new sear, free of charge. It was my first interaction with them and I was impressed. It finally came today, and dropped right in perfectly, no fitting at all. Comparing the new with the old, the new doesn't have a beveled edge like the old does, but after dry-firing it about a hundred times everything seems to be working fine. Is that beveled edge important for something I'm missing? People can say what they want about MIM parts, but there is something to be said about that level of consistency. Anyhow, all is well that's ended well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 (edited) I thought that even the MIM sears had to be fitted. It's a critical fit to get the "hand off" from the beak of the trigger nose lifting the hammer to the lower porch. I have a 66 with MIM parts that had a problem with the sear and needed fitting. It's possible one might fall in and work OK (?) the new doesn't have a beveled edge like the old does, but after dry-firing it about a hundred times everything seems to be working fine. Is that beveled edge important for something I'm missing? Do you mean the bottom edge of the sear? That bevel is where the fitting is. Edited July 25, 2015 by bountyhunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forrest Halley Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 I'd suggest the sear recipient look up how to fit said sear. Not saying you didn't get lucky, but your response indicates a certain unfamiliarity. The new double action sear needs to be fitted carefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 (edited) Kuhnhausen manuals are the best. http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/books-amp-videos/books/handgun-gunsmithing-books/the-s-w-revolver-a-shop-manual-5th-edition-prod73553.aspx Edited July 25, 2015 by bountyhunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
66L Posted July 26, 2015 Author Share Posted July 26, 2015 I thought that even the MIM sears had to be fitted. It's a critical fit to get the "hand off" from the beak of the trigger nose lifting the hammer to the lower porch. I have a 66 with MIM parts that had a problem with the sear and needed fitting. It's possible one might fall in and work OK (?) the new doesn't have a beveled edge like the old does, but after dry-firing it about a hundred times everything seems to be working fine. Is that beveled edge important for something I'm missing? Do you mean the bottom edge of the sear? That bevel is where the fitting is. Yes, that's it. I have two MIM hammers, It works fine with one, skips a couple chambers with the other. I'm guessing that bottom corner is more about reset, or lack of in this case, and is causing the skipping? It seems to be the correct length to "hand-off" when using either hammer. I still have no idea what happened to the original sear, but the new one, despite no fitting at all, seems to work with one and partially with the other. It's interesting to me that the sear on my 625 has no bevel either, but works fine in both guns. Short of buying an expensive piece of specialty equipment, is there an efficient way to fit put this bevel on? I doubt S&W will send me another free one, but Brownells has them for $5, so I'm not too afraid of some trial and error. Kuhnhausen manuals are the best. http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/books-amp-videos/books/handgun-gunsmithing-books/the-s-w-revolver-a-shop-manual-5th-edition-prod73553.aspx I have one of these for 1911's. Next time I order from Brownells it will be in my cart! I'd suggest the sear recipient look up how to fit said sear. Not saying you didn't get lucky, but your response indicates a certain unfamiliarity. The new double action sear needs to be fitted carefully. I tried Googling how to fit it, but no luck. Where do you all turn for this sort of info? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete627 Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 (edited) I apparently don't have permission to post a "link" (read that somewhere) ... but try this thread ... it helped me fit a new trigger a couple of times (great photos ... explains chamfering the tip of the sear etc). I tried the following and it got me to the thread - google "trigger reset on S&W model 10-11" - you should see a reference to a sear article on the S&W forum ... as I said ... it got me out of trouble a couple of times and I keep it around for reference. edit: http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-revolvers-1980-present/284871-trigger-reset-s-w-model-10-11-a.html Figured it out!! Edited July 26, 2015 by pete627 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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