TDA Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 I'm trying to use up some .452" 230g lubricated LRN's and am picking up what seems like quite a bit of barrel leading shooting them in a P220 Sig with 3.5g of Clay's at 1.2" OAL. (Clay's shows 3.5 as Min and 4.0 as Max for 230g LRN) By quite a bit, I shot fifteen rounds and the first 3/8" of the rifled area is coated in lead. I'm new to this reloading stuff, but I loaded up ten of the lubed LRN's, ten of Berry's 230g plated, and ten 230g jacketed rounds, all using 3.5g of Clay's in my 1911 and the lubricated lead have quite a bit more felt recoil than the others. Would this be normal? I was hoping to use these in my P220 to cut down a bit on using my 1911. Any suggestions to cut down on the leading, or should I just ignore it and keep shooting? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttolliver Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 I shoot tons of cast lead bullets, even dabbling in casting my own. I've put thousands of 230gr LRN though my SA RO and my S&W 625JM. Neither have had leading issues with my standard major load of 3.9gr Clays at ~1.250. So lead and Clays are a well behaved combination in general. I would expect the issue to be elsewhere. Depending on the source of your bullets, I suppose it's possible you have some very soft lead bullets. I'm used to shooting from a local manufacturer that advertises a 16 Brinnell on their packaging. That's a typical hardness for general purpose cast bullets. But if you got these through a trade or from someone who dabbled in casting it's possible they didn't alloy the lead up high enough. I don't know that over crimping lead would promote severe leading, but we're always warned not to over crimp. So make sure you're just crimping enough to basically straighten the casing back out. I generally set my crimp to .001 less than the case just above the crimp -- just enough to have a measurable narrowing of the crimp and no more. Last, but not least, you'll also hear people who otherwise shoot lead successfully say they have one gun that just doesn't like lead (as in fouls badly). I assume the issue is maybe the barrel lands or rifling aren't cut as smooth and develop more friction with the lead. Or something like that. Anyway, those are some ideas. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougCarden Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 It sounds like the bullets are too soft. Go to a Bullseye or W231 speed powder and you should be fine.... DougC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDA Posted May 27, 2015 Author Share Posted May 27, 2015 The bullets are 18 BHN. Product Type: Bullets Caliber: .45 Grains / Weight: 230 Description / Style: Round Nose Hard Cast Sized & Lubed Lead Quantity: 500 Manufacturer: Rocky Mountain Reloading New or Pulled: New Brinnel Hardness: 18 I'll try some of these in my 1911 and see what happens, but I tried some lubed 200g LSWC's in my 1911 and quickly switched to coated LSWC's due to leading. That was with 5g of Red Dot though. I haven't had any luck with lubed lead so far... Thank you for the replies! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDA Posted May 27, 2015 Author Share Posted May 27, 2015 (edited) I'll try a Min load (4.5) of Universal to slow things down a bit. Also have the following if one of them might be more suitable. Bullseye N320 Blue Dot 700X HP-38 WSF Edited May 27, 2015 by TDA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superdude Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 With respect to the recoil question, lead bullets usually go faster than plated and jacketed bullets with the same load, so you might be feeling that extra velocity. http://38super.net/Pages/How%20Fast.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttolliver Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Most people dislike 700x because it doesn't meter well, but it's an excellent 45acp powder and should have plenty of load data out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDA Posted May 28, 2015 Author Share Posted May 28, 2015 I loaded up 20 rounds with 4.5g of Universal Clay's and the barrel looks clean and they felt good. I'll probably try some of the other powders as well while I'm at it. I ended up with a couple thousand of these Cast LRN's, so I'd like to find a suitable load for my pistols and put them to good use. Thanks for the help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDA Posted June 5, 2015 Author Share Posted June 5, 2015 It turns out that the barrel on my P220 is .4523" and the bullets are .542", so that doesn't help much as far as leading. I guess I'll try the Clays loads in my 1911 and see what happens, as it has a .451" barrel, which is what I used when I tried the Universal loads. I sure would like to figure out a way to use these bullets and Clays with my Sig though, so I just loaded some up with 3.3g of Clays rather than 3.5. I may try 3.7 or 4.0 and perhaps a bit of obturation may take place and possibly seal up a bit better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tires2burn Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Pretty fat bullets ( .542 ). I have never loaded .452 lead bullets for my 1911. I always thought they were cowboy bullets like for a 45 long. I load .451 and never have leading problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike l m Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 I use Bayou Bullets. The green coated ones. It is a 225 gr fp. Load with 4.1 of Clays. I run a bore snake through it two or three times and it is clean. I beleive that the bullets you are using are too soft. Call Donnie at Bayou or email him (great guy) will help you. Thanks, Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tires2burn Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Polygonal barrels lead up more than standard rifled barrels from what I understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDA Posted June 5, 2015 Author Share Posted June 5, 2015 Pretty fat bullets ( .542 ). I have never loaded .452 lead bullets for my 1911. I always thought they were cowboy bullets like for a 45 long. I load .451 and never have leading problems. My understanding is that a lubricated lead bullet should be .001" larger than the bore for proper sealing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDA Posted June 5, 2015 Author Share Posted June 5, 2015 I use Bayou Bullets. The green coated ones. It is a 225 gr fp. Load with 4.1 of Clays. I run a bore snake through it two or three times and it is clean. I believe that the bullets you are using are too soft. Call Donnie at Bayou or email him (great guy) will help you. Thanks, Mike These are 18BHN lubricated lead bullets. I wish they were coated! I have had no problems at all with coated bullets. I ended up with a couple thousand of these and would like to use them if possible. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDA Posted June 5, 2015 Author Share Posted June 5, 2015 Polygonal barrels lead up more than standard rifled barrels from what I understand. I had to research that. Both my 1911 and Sig P220 have conventional grooved rifling. Thanks for pointing that out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yeti Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 (edited) It turns out that the barrel on my P220 is .4523" and the bullets are .542", so that doesn't help much as far as leading.. If your bullet measurements are correct...you have the wrong bullets. Buy a Shiloh rifle and a cowboy outfit. Or....the less amusing option is to trade them to somebody that already has the aforementioned stuff. Edited June 24, 2015 by Yeti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yeti Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 You can call yourself the Single Action Kid or something else snappy, if you decide on option A. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDA Posted June 24, 2015 Author Share Posted June 24, 2015 Really?? I've not seen any .45ACP that were not .452" in RN or SWC. http://www.bayoubullets.net/45-acp-230-gr-rn-100-ct/ http://missouribullet.com/results.php?category=5&secondary=13 http://www.acmebullet.com/bullets-reloading-brass/45-ACP-Lead-Bullets/Lead-Bullets-45-Auto-230-Grain-RN http://www.acmebullet.com/bullets-reloading-brass/45-ACP-Lead-Bullets/Lead-Bullets-45-Auto-200-Grain-SWC http://www.berrysmfg.com/products-c141-45_Cal_452.aspx I won't bother with more links to .45ACP bullets. I switched to 5g of Unique and they are working fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njl Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Non-jacketed .45 bullets are frequently anywhere from .451 to .453. I tend to have trouble with >.452 bullets gauging when loaded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmbaccolyte Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 When I shot a few thousand cast bullets that weren't the right hardness for the chamber pressures that my load generated, I had to clean the leading deposits out of the barrel with copper "Chore Boy" filaments wrapped around a bronze brush. These deposits can cause the pressures to sky rocket so be careful. Doug C. suggested Bullseye powder and you listed that as one of the powders that you have, so why not try it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Bullseye is the oldest smokeless powder available and has been the overriding favorite of Bullseye shooters for a long, long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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