Versatile .223 Powder

[D.Hayden]

Seems like most people change powders on the heavier bullets. Even though the Hodgdon guide shows Varget and 335, 332 being used from 40's to 80's.

I've been using different loads on 52's to 69's (and want to try some 75's).

Any one powder that can drive them all accurately?

Looks like lots of people use Varget for the heavier bullets, but will it run 52's or 55's?

I've been using H335, but it doesn't seem to be very popular with the heavier bullets.

[George]

Hi Dave,

Varget will push 52's through 80's very well and so will AA2520. WW748 isn't optimum past the 69's and AA2460 won't push the heavies as well as AA2520 and Varget will but will work up to 77's.

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Regards,

[gm iprod]

Also take a look at V V N140 or N540. A Little expensive but they both work well across a wide range of bullets.

[sargenv]

I'm currently using IMR 4895 but then I don't load these on a dillon either. I'm using an RCBS uniflow measure since I load my 223's on a rockchucker. I know 50 gr bullets are a tad light, but out to only 200 yards and it probably won't make much of a difference. With the 50's I run 26.4 gr. The 69's I have, I loaded with 23.7 and have yet to do any range work with them. There are better powders to use for a progresive loader, but since I have 2 big cans of the stuff, I may as well use it. The stick powders tend to like being trickled into the cases it seems, otherwise it will not all settle in right and will overflow the case. If I were using a progessive, I'd stick with the finer stick powders or ball powder. I've used H335 in the past with adequate accuracy.

Vince

[D.Hayden]

Thanks..

George, why don't you use Varget for 55's? Or are these just plinking rounds and you don't use 55's for matches?

VV powders... I'll always admit... I'm cheap

Hello, my name's Dave, I use TiteGroup.

Does 4895 meter better/same/worse than Varget? I tried that, it wasn't horrible (like 4350), but it was bad..

[sargenv]

Um, didn't I give you a small bag of 4895 to test the metering on? I've never shot varget so I don't know. I've been out of the loop for a few years on rifle powders. Since I have the large amount of 4895 I really have no use to buy more of something else. Currently I'm trying to go on the cheap and burn the stuff I have on hand. Though I may be needing some titegroup sometime soon

Vince

[D.Hayden]

You did, I've just never seen Varget, and was hoping for a comparison, the 'it' was 4895... Seems like some people have problems with varget metering. If it's no worse than 4895, that's be ok...

[ErikW]

Varget was a disaster in my Dillon but I went through a bunch of surplus 4895 without trouble. Of course, a lot of it was with a large powder bar loading .30-06, but I sure loaded a lot of .223 with the small powder bar.

I loaded only 55-69 gr with the 4895, but I think it's appropriate for 75-77 gr.

I picked up a bunch of surplus military powder, WC846 IIRC, and it works well for 55 to 77 gr. In fact, it pushes my 77s to max velocity with good accuracy. It meets the BerKim criteria: it's cheap. There's also WC844, which I think is the faster of the two.

[D.Hayden]

846 = W 748 right? Where'd you get it?

And WC844 = H-335?

I hadn't seen anyone using H-335 for the heavier bullets.

Do you chrono and notice any of the tempreture sensitivity people talk about?

[sargenv]

You can get both surplus powders from www.gibrass.com. If you place an order, tell me so I can get some stuff too. I've been wanting to buy some surplus for a while but didn't want to only order 1 or 2 kegs. The more you buy, the less hazmat you have to pay.

Vince

[ErikW]

my post on W748 = WC846

Well George says 748 isn't appropriate for 77s but I'm pushing them to the max with 846. They are even moly coated (more powder). I chronographed at Richmond (sea level). I've shot them at Bend (3000+ ft ?) and Reno (4500 ft) without pressure signs, but the weather wasn't really warm. I can't remember if I shot them at the Reno 3 gun RO match, when it was warm/hot. I kind of worry about blowing out primers or separating heads on a 90 degree day.

[George]

George, why don't you use Varget for 55's? Or are these just plinking rounds and you don't use 55's for matches?

I don't use Varget for anything but SMK 69 & 77's because it's expensive compared to a ball powder like 748 which is what I use under bulk 55's for club match gunnin'

BTW, Varget (or any stick powder for that matter) will meter fine in a Dillon if you hit the press sharply at the top of the stroke, count one mississippi before lowering the cartridge out of the powder die and use the large charge bar, even with .223. It forms a deeper narrower drop cavity and works much better for me than the small charge bar ever did with Varget. The large charge bar works fine for .223 size charges of stick powder, but won't deliver good results with ball powder because it can't be made small enough.

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Regards

[D.Hayden]

Erik... you should move that to rifle reloading, I'd missed that in my search. Other than preasure signs, ever chrono'd Richmond, and say, Ione in Summer ? See what the difference was? Shooting in July/August hear with 100+ being common, I'm a little nervous.

George.. thanks..

I think I have the large on with 335 (24.5grs), seems to be consistant enough, and it'll be easier that way going to a stick powder.

[sargenv]

I wonder if we can't simulate the heat of summer by placing several of those hand warmer pouches in with the ammo and measuring the temp wiith some kind of thermometer. Those heat pads are supposed to put the heat up to 100+. Might also just use an electric heat pad. That might be kind of strange looking at the range though

Vince

[Religious Shooter]

Hell try A2230C. As Rich would say "It's cheeeeeep!"

KellyN was getting good results with 69's and A2230C.

My personally gathered data:

BRAND TYPE WEIGHT PRIMER CHARGE POWDER 3-SHOT 4-SHOT

16" DMPS: 55's => ~3095 fps

20" DMPS: 55's => ~3130 fps (Only 8.75 fps per inch.)

Hornady FMJBT 55 FSR 26.0 A2230C 0.95 1.45

Hornady FMJBT 55 FSR 26.0 A2230C 0.85 1.30

Remington Power Lokt 55 FSR 26.0 A2230C 0.80 1.10

Remington FMJBT 55 FSR 26.0 A2230C 1.10 1.30

Remington FMJBT 55 FSR 26.0 A2230C 1.25 1.85

Sierra Gameking FMJBT 55 FSR 26.0 A2230C 0.10 0.60

Sierra Gameking BTHP 55 FSR 26.0 A2230C 0.75 1.10

Winchester FMJBT 55 FSR 26.0 A2230C 0.85 1.35

16" DPMS: 64's => ~2845 fps

Winchester Power Point 64 FSR 24.5 A2230C 0.55 1.40

16" DPMS: 69's => ~2831 fps

20" DPMS: 69's => ~2829 fps (It looked like A2230C is too fast for a 20". No gain in velocity.)

Hornady HPBT 68 FSR 24.5 A2230C 1.10 1.90

Hornady HPBT 68 FSR 24.5 A2230C 1.85 2.20

Nosler Custom Comp HPBT 69 FSR 24.5 A2230C 0.85 1.30

Sierra HPBT 69 FSR 24.5 A2230C 0.55 0.75

Groups shot @ 100 yards.

A2230C meters very well in the Dillon measure. Don't know how it fares in varying temperature though.

And oh yeah... I'm not a very good bench-rest shooter. So a solid hand would have probably bettered those groups.

[George]

Well George says 748 isn't appropriate for 77's

It will work, just not as well as a slower powder will. Same as 2460 and 2230 will work, but they are all a bit fast for the real heavies and were originally designed to push a 50 sumthin grain at 3200+ in a 1:12 bbl.

BTW, Varget will also push a 50-52 nicely, you just need to trickle it to get enough in the case to get the big V going.

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Regards

[TBF]

H 4895 shouldn't be left out of the conversation.

Very slightly faster than Varget and slightly smaller grained too, I have found it to meter a little easier than Varget. It also seems better suited to the lighter bullets than Varget too, Varget takes some finesse to fit it all in the case at max loads with light bullets.

Dunno how it stacks up with the heavy weight stuff ( 69 gr. + ) in the real world, but it looks good on paper.

Travis F.

[D.Hayden]

TBF... did you stop using H-335 and start up with 4895?

[kellyn]

AA2230C for 40 to 69 grainers.

RE15 or Varget for 69 to 77s.

I also agree that 4895 should not be overlooked.

[TBF]

TBF... did you stop using H-335 and start up with 4895?

Berkim,

I have not quit H335 cold turkey or anything, but I have been leaning toward H 4895 lately just because it flat works so well under these 60 Gr. Hornady TAP bullets I scored for cheap.

H4895 seems a little cleaner than H335 too.

I never really tried H335 with 69 Gr. bullets so I can't speak on that.

H335 works really well with 50 - 55 Gr. bullets.

Travis F.

[Bollocks]

Hi,

If I could only use one powder for bullets from 40-80 grain it would be Vitha N135.

VV N133 is good for the lighter bullets but not the heavier ones. VV N140 is nice with heavy bullets 69+ grain but is not suitable for the very light pills.

N135 falls right in ther middle and covers the whole weightrange with nice velocities at relatively mild pressures.

Cheers from Amsterdam,

BolloX

[D.Hayden]

What's the difference between AA2230C and AA2230?

I don't see 'C' listed at Accurate Arms, but I see it's much cheaper.

Is it a surplus, or pulled powder?

And speaking of really cheap, anyone try: ACCURATE DATA POWDER 73 ?

[D.Hayden]

I found this blurb at NatchezSS:

2230C:

This powder is a slightly slower version of 2230 and the load data for 2230 can be safely used for all calibers that 2230 is recommended in. The 2230C is a fast to medium speed rifle propellant and was designed for use in both the .223 and .308 calibers.

That sound about right?

[uscbigdawg]

H335 and/or W748. Will work very well for any bullet up to 69's. With 68's & up I go with Varget. But then...I crave simplicity.

Hope that helps!

SPC Richard A. White

C-Co, 232nd Med Bn

3rd PLT (Wolverines!)

Fort Sam Houston, TX (Home of the Combat Medic! Hooah!!!)

[wsimpso1]

I saw a lot of mention of ball powders and Varget, but after trying to get loads to work with both in three different AR15's, I have given up on them. Ball powders are terrible dirty and Varget gave me a lot of velocity variation in 69's, 77's and 80's (I used to be an avid High Power shooter).

In all fairness, there are folks who swear by Varget lit off by CCI bench rest or military type primers. I believe that maybe they go together, but with Fed, Win, and Rem primers, Varget was not up to my needs. Why not CCI? Every misfire that I have ever had has been with CCI primers, so I just won't do that anymore. I know, it flies in the face of the experience of others, but I trust my own experience and take my own counsel...

For 223 Rem, I settled on RL15 for most everything, H4895 when I feel a need for a faster powder. If you have a brake on the muzzle, RL15 works it better. And in both my Harrels measure and my Hornady Progressive, RL15 meters like ball powder.

Try it out!

Billski