DougCarden Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 The coating on the brand new brass from Starline needs to be tumbled off before you load it so you won't have sticking and notice the harder fit in the sizing die. I don't remember what they put on it, but it retards tarnishing. Regardless, I will try and take some pics to show the new brass with the bulge vs. once fired and once fired commercial rollsized Redding sizing die with the same bullet. I don't know what the problem is with the brass. We have two 929s around here. One has not been shot enough to know if it has a problem,and the other I found out yesterday does. My guess is that Smith ran reamers too long and some chambers are minimum dimensions. I remember a lot of 625s needed to be reamed as well....... DougC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pskys2 Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 this has been my experience with all new starline brass, it requires alot of effort the first time through... That's pretty strange, whenever I throw some new brass in the hopper I'll be pulling the handle reloading away when the handle will slam to the bottom with no effort and I'll see that it was one of the new pieces of brass coming through that didn't require any sizing compared to the fired cases. It's not the resizing that is difficult. I've found with about all new cases it's the powder funnel sticking as it withdraws after flaring the case mouth. Has to do with the sharper edges of new cases combined with no fired gunpowder residue (which acts as a dry lubricant). It helps a little to de-burr the case mouth, but it still is tougher than a fired case. The powder funnel on a 1050 loader doesn't stick, it's a different shape than the other Dillon presses. I can only dream of a 1050 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg K Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 I can only dream of a 1050 I got into my 1050's back when you could get the RL model for $500. It's one of the few benefits of being old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterthefish Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 How about this. Take the 929 cylinders, throw them in the trash. Have a 627 cylinder fit. Shoot 38 short colts. Problem solved. I'm actually thinking about doing this if using .357 bullets in my loads doesn't tighten up accuracy. Any loads with .355s group terribly. Either that or get my spare 627 cylinder reamed for 9s so I have an 8 shot 9mm with a 5" barrel like it should have been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
granderojo Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 If you use a .357 chambered cyl. and barrel is slugged for .357, your .355 or .356 bullets might not group very good out of that 627 set up. Don't know. Just my thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktm400 Posted April 2, 2015 Author Share Posted April 2, 2015 How about this. Take the 929 cylinders, throw them in the trash. Have a 627 cylinder fit. Shoot 38 short colts. Problem solved. I'm actually thinking about doing this if using .357 bullets in my loads doesn't tighten up accuracy. Any loads with .355s group terribly. Either that or get my spare 627 cylinder reamed for 9s so I have an 8 shot 9mm with a 5" barrel like it should have been. I have discovered that lighter (shorter) bullets like 125 coated are not accurate in my 929 - I have some key holing at times. Longer 147 and 160 9mm bullets group better. I finally slugged my barrel and it's .357 - my solution has been to load the 38/357 Blue Bullet 147 RN and it's very accurate. BTW, Bayou will be making this same 147 RN In 9mm and 38/357 soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanc Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 How about this. Take the 929 cylinders, throw them in the trash. Have a 627 cylinder fit. Shoot 38 short colts. Problem solved. I'm actually thinking about doing this if using .357 bullets in my loads doesn't tighten up accuracy. Any loads with .355s group terribly. Either that or get my spare 627 cylinder reamed for 9s so I have an 8 shot 9mm with a 5" barrel like it should have been. If you are even remotely serious, I will buy your 929 cylinder. I was sure I heard somewhere that 38 short colts would chamber in a 929 just fine. I don't have any shot colt brass so I can't test this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWP Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 How about this. Take the 929 cylinders, throw them in the trash. Have a 627 cylinder fit. Shoot 38 short colts. Problem solved. I'm actually thinking about doing this if using .357 bullets in my loads doesn't tighten up accuracy. Any loads with .355s group terribly. Either that or get my spare 627 cylinder reamed for 9s so I have an 8 shot 9mm with a 5" barrel like it should have been. If you are even remotely serious, I will buy your 929 cylinder. I was sure I heard somewhere that 38 short colts would chamber in a 929 just fine. I don't have any shot colt brass so I can't test this. It'll chamber, and fire fine. I measure a .07ish longer reach for the firing pin. The short colt cases have to expand, but they seem to resize without any issue. It seems the longer reach will require a little more mainspring tension to ensure ignition. I took 16 short colt cases and fired and resized them 20 times, they still work fine in both the 929 and 627, but have a light strike every 30-40 rounds compared to a 100% with 9mm cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterthefish Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 How about this. Take the 929 cylinders, throw them in the trash. Have a 627 cylinder fit. Shoot 38 short colts. Problem solved. I'm actually thinking about doing this if using .357 bullets in my loads doesn't tighten up accuracy. Any loads with .355s group terribly. Either that or get my spare 627 cylinder reamed for 9s so I have an 8 shot 9mm with a 5" barrel like it should have been.I have discovered that lighter (shorter) bullets like 125 coated are not accurate in my 929 - I have some key holing at times. Longer 147 and 160 9mm bullets group better. I finally slugged my barrel and it's .357 - my solution has been to load the 38/357 Blue Bullet 147 RN and it's very accurate. BTW, Bayou will be making this same 147 RN In 9mm and 38/357 soon. I've tried everything from 115 GR Berrys to 160 GR Bayous, but all 9mm / .355-.356. I actually just loaded up 50 Blue 147 .357s and 50 Xtreme 147 .357s and am headed to the range this morning to test them out. My throats are .357 so hope this gets me where I need to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9146gt Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 On the two 929 I have sent back to Smith for accuracy issues. One got new Barrel,cylinder,trigger, hammer,rear sight, the other just a barrel. When I asked Smith about the cylinder spec the engineer said .3575" was the spec for the 929 and yes the .38 Super 627's were .356". As I have 10 k 115 9mm projictiles I am working on a load with them. 160 Bayous work well, .357" 125 gr and 147gr also load and shoot well. All loads tested at 50 yards. Plan to use the 929 in NRA Action Pistol metallic class. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterthefish Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 How about this. Take the 929 cylinders, throw them in the trash. Have a 627 cylinder fit. Shoot 38 short colts. Problem solved. I'm actually thinking about doing this if using .357 bullets in my loads doesn't tighten up accuracy. Any loads with .355s group terribly. Either that or get my spare 627 cylinder reamed for 9s so I have an 8 shot 9mm with a 5" barrel like it should have been. If you are even remotely serious, I will buy your 929 cylinder. I was sure I heard somewhere that 38 short colts would chamber in a 929 just fine. I don't have any shot colt brass so I can't test this. Well I hit the range yesterday and was able to do a 2" group at 25 yards ( about as good as I can do) with the 357 sized blues. So I'll be hanging onto it for a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg K Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Since nobody wanted to make me a deal on that junk Starline brass I had to order some more. It'll be here Monday and I'll see if there have been any changes from the last batch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akvasyuk Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 What is it about the Starline brass that makes it stick ??? It's just my theory I am planning to verify soon: starling brass is longer, 0.750 vs 0.740-5. So when you make specific OAL, the seating depth in Starline is more, what means more pressure. All my loads with165 and 147 are just fine in all mixed headstamps with the exception of Starline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg K Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 I got in my new Starline brass and did a little checking and testing. The new unfired brass measures .750" long, after you fire it and fire form it the length is .743 then when you resize it the length goes back to .749". I measured fired Federal brass before and after sizing and got the exact same measurements. At the widest point the new unsized Starline brass measures .0005" larger than a sized case. There is no bulge and it sizes with almost zero effort. I loaded some of the new Starline brass without sizing it and it falls right in a drop check guage, no bulge. I went to the range and fired 10 moons of new brass that I did not size, just primed, powdered and seated a slug. I also fired another couple of hundred new brass cartridges that I ran through the whole process to include sizing. The loads chronoed at 139PF. I shot about as fast as I could shooting steel, moon after moon and there was no sticking what so ever. I didn't clean or tumble any of this brass, I didn't even size 80 rounds. I can't reproduce what some of you are having trouble with, I sure can't find any fault with the brass. Below is a picture of some of my Starline brass. From left to right is an unsized fired case, a sized fired case, an unsized new case and last a sized unfired case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanc Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 I got in my new Starline brass and did a little checking and testing. The new unfired brass measures .750" long, after you fire it and fire form it the length is .743 then when you resize it the length goes back to .749". I measured fired Federal brass before and after sizing and got the exact same measurements. At the widest point the new unsized Starline brass measures .0005" larger than a sized case. There is no bulge and it sizes with almost zero effort. I loaded some of the new Starline brass without sizing it and it falls right in a drop check guage, no bulge. I went to the range and fired 10 moons of new brass that I did not size, just primed, powdered and seated a slug. I also fired another couple of hundred new brass cartridges that I ran through the whole process to include sizing. The loads chronoed at 139PF. I shot about as fast as I could shooting steel, moon after moon and there was no sticking what so ever. I didn't clean or tumble any of this brass, I didn't even size 80 rounds. I can't reproduce what some of you are having trouble with, I sure can't find any fault with the brass. Below is a picture of some of my Starline brass. From left to right is an unsized fired case, a sized fired case, an unsized new case and last a sized unfired case. Gregg, Any work done on your cylinder? what is your load? sean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akvasyuk Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 What is it about the Starline brass that makes it stick ??? It's just my theory I am planning to verify soon: starling brass is longer, 0.750 vs 0.740-5. So when you make specific OAL, the seating depth in Starline is more, what means more pressure. All my loads with165 and 147 are just fine in all mixed headstamps with the exception of Starline. Nope. It did not work. The theory was wrong. Starline brass is still sticky. I measured the diameter of the case near the case base where it's most expanded. Starline gives 0.391-2". The other headstamps - 0.388. It's clear that the brass used by Starline produces more expansion. Probably because of some metal specs. The only brass, which was absolutely not usable in 929 was turkish cartridges ZQ1. They gave 0.393 and were extremely difficult to extract even with a lot force, total lock-up. The best cases for so far are Winchester and Federal in my 929. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg K Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 Gregg, Any work done on your cylinder? what is your load? sean I put a little chamfer on the cylinder and did as Warren suggested and wrapped some Scotchbrite around an old bore brush and smoothed up the charge holes. 3.8 Solo 1250 with a 145gr Ibejihead, 3.4 Solo 1250 with a 160 Ibejihead. They haven't sold Solo 1250 for a long time, used to buy it in 25lb kegs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg K Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 The best cases for so far are Winchester and Federal in my 929. I fired some Winchester brass and some Starline and the fired cases both measure the same at the same places except the Winchester was .002" larger at the extractor groove where the moonclip snaps in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrDanCheck Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 147 blue bullets 1.160 oal 3.5gr tite group federal brass federal primer. 135 pf 147 blue bullets 1.160 oal 4.4gr wsf federal brass federal primer 135 pf 1500 rounds through the gun. No problem and no cleaning.. Not even a brush through the cylinder.. The dirtier the better.. It groups well at 50yards. I think oal is key. I used to load at 1.125 oal in my 38 super gun.. With the same powder weight and that will lock up the cylinder.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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