benellishooter3 Posted March 23, 2015 Author Share Posted March 23, 2015 The gun shipped 6 business days ago. I haven't heard from Springfield. It's only been in their hands for a couple of days so I'm not expecting to hear from them for at least another few days. My brass is bought range brass, if it's in really good shape it gets dry tumbled, if it's pretty dirty it goes through stainless media and water treatment. I don't have a great method for inspecting every case, but I need to put one in place. After loaded the ammo is placed in plastic boxes bullet down so that I can see any cracks or messed up primers in the bases. So the answer would be I don't have a great system for inspecting every piece of brass that goes through the Dillon. What are some methods other people use? Benellishooter3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aceinyerface Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 I don't have a great method for inspecting every case, but I need to put one in place. After loaded the ammo is placed in plastic boxes bullet down so that I can see any cracks or messed up primers in the bases. So the answer would be I don't have a great system for inspecting every piece of brass that goes through the Dillon. What are some methods other people use? It is entirely possible you had a bad piece of brass and the case head blew off. The only way to inspect is to pick up each piece and give it a look. After having interactions with some forum people, it is clear they aren't inspecting the cases much and could easily miss something like a case head problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark R Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 What was your overall length? I was blowing case heads off with a Para P16 in 40 when I was loading major pf and short OAL using Clays powder. Combination of powder and short OAL likely played a role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phecksel Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 (edited) My brass is bought range brass, if it's in really good shape it gets dry tumbled, if it's pretty dirty it goes through stainless media and water treatment. Which is exactly what a professional engineer/metallurgist said here on this site, that wet tumbling causes weakening of the brass leading to catastrophic failure. I personally talked to the gentleman as I was right on the edge of getting set up and almost ordered the SS pin tumbler. His expertise and knowledge was a compelling argument to not use wet tumbling.. http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=166660 Edited March 23, 2015 by phecksel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mont1120 Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Since my issues came up, I check the rims of .40 brass pretty close. I have indeed found some what look like hairline cracks along the case where the rim is. I do not use wet tumbling at all. Both rim separation were absolutely lead 180 grain rounds. Why plated rounds don't do it I am not sure. Again, not being an engineer, perhaps and I stress perhaps there is some odd pressure spike with this particular round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benellishooter3 Posted March 24, 2015 Author Share Posted March 24, 2015 I know 100% for sure the round in question was dry tumbled only. I've wet tumbled everything from HOT 7 mag to 9mm. Never had an issue. I could see if you wet tumbled WAY too much it could possibly weaken the brass.... Possibly. But it wasn't wet tumbled so that's for another thread. Nothing from Springfield yet. Benellishooter3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpeltier Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 In the picture you posted of the loaded bullet and the blown case the mouth of the loaded case has a shiny ring around it and doesn't look very even (may be a photo anomaly). Do you have a bullet puller? Id be curious to see what a pulled bullet looks like after seeing that picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benellishooter3 Posted March 24, 2015 Author Share Posted March 24, 2015 i sure can pull a couple of the rounds i have loaded, although i doubt i have that exact one. i see what you are saying in the picture. benellishooter3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benellishooter3 Posted March 31, 2015 Author Share Posted March 31, 2015 Update, Springfield called today, said the gun was fixed. $75 bucks for a new frame and a new extractor. on the way back to me as we speak! that is a super fast return time! couldn't be happier. He said he assumes it was an over pressure with the ammo OR OR a brass malfunction.... who knows. it is time to put a better brass inspection practice in place and get back to reloading. i still haven't pulled any of the ammo i was using. or measured OAL. Who uses a bulge buster or a roll sizer? i wonder if some of the brass i had was bulged and wasn't fully going into the chamber, just enough for the gun to still fire but not be properly locked up. i asked because i took some of the same ammo i was shooting and shot it in my buddies xdm 4.5.... about 3 rounds out of 100 wouldn't go into battery fully due to a bulge, and it wouldn't fire either. i have never had that issue in my gun, i assume his chamber is tighter than mine. they are both factory Springfield barrels. i saved the rounds that wouldn't go into his barrel to try them in mine when i get it back. i will only see if they will fit and pull them or discard of them. i think i will either buy a bulge buster or start buying roll sized brass. any ideas or words of wisdom is appreciated. THANKS AGAIN FOR ALL OF THE IDEAS AND HELP, ALSO THANKS TO SPRINGFIELD!!! what a great customer service!! benellishooter3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Update, Springfield called today, said the gun was fixed. $75 bucks for a new frame and a new extractor. on the way back to me as we speak! that is a super fast return time! couldn't be happier. He said he assumes it was an over pressure with the ammo OR OR a brass malfunction.... who knows. it is time to put a better brass inspection practice in place and get back to reloading. i still haven't pulled any of the ammo i was using. or measured OAL. Who uses a bulge buster or a roll sizer? i wonder if some of the brass i had was bulged and wasn't fully going into the chamber, just enough for the gun to still fire but not be properly locked up. i asked because i took some of the same ammo i was shooting and shot it in my buddies xdm 4.5.... about 3 rounds out of 100 wouldn't go into battery fully due to a bulge, and it wouldn't fire either. i have never had that issue in my gun, i assume his chamber is tighter than mine. they are both factory Springfield barrels. i saved the rounds that wouldn't go into his barrel to try them in mine when i get it back. i will only see if they will fit and pull them or discard of them. i think i will either buy a bulge buster or start buying roll sized brass. any ideas or words of wisdom is appreciated. THANKS AGAIN FOR ALL OF THE IDEAS AND HELP, ALSO THANKS TO SPRINGFIELD!!! what a great customer service!! benellishooter3 Drop check them all. Then make sure your sizer dies is all the way down to just touching the plate and remove the punch. Run the failed rounds through the sizer again and see if they drop check then. Also make sure you are taking all of the bell out of the case. Try turning it down a hair at a time and see if they drop check. Also, make sure they are not bottoming out by being too long. It only takes a thou of an inch to touch the lands and not let a round chamber. The rounds should spin freely when you drop check them. Somewhere in these areas is your solution. There is no need to roll size brass or even use a bulge buster if you are set up right. I don't remember, are you using a Udie? That may solve all of your problems as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benellishooter3 Posted March 31, 2015 Author Share Posted March 31, 2015 Udie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Udie? I guess that answers that question! Udie is an undersized sizing die. LEE and EGW are the brands. EGW is made by LEE for them. They are generally 1/1000th tighter and made to size slightly lower on the case. No telling how many reloaders are using them! probably MILLIONS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benellishooter3 Posted March 31, 2015 Author Share Posted March 31, 2015 LMAO, good to know. Using Dillon dies. Or RCBS in everything. I'll look into that! THANKS Benellishooter3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark R Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Run your once-fired .40 brass through a Redding G-Rx Push-thru die and you will not have any bulge problems. I bought a new Lee single-stage press (about $40) and put the push-thru die in it and run all my once fired 40 brass through it. Every one of my loaded rounds pass a case gauge test without fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarvis243 Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 +1 I have used the bulge buster on all of my .40 and some 9mm, makes things a lot easier down the road when you start checking with the case gauge. I found a used turret press that i have dedicated for the bulge busters. I have not really had any problems with 9. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xd1977 Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Sounds like an over pressure situation for sure. Either a double charge, bullet setback, or a squib Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xd1977 Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 +1...yep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xd1977 Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 I use a dillon case gauge for every 40 s&w that I load when I'm prepping used brass for loading. First I clean, resize and deprime. Then gauge check. If the brass doesn't pass the gauge check, chances are it has been shot through a chamber with an unsupported area..making the case bulge. I know hundreds of folks that remedy this using a bulge buster or U- die, but not me. Those casings go straight to the trash can. I've heard and seen the horror stories and have too much invested in my pistols to take a risk on a 3 cent piece of brass destroying my pistols. This method has worked for me using my XD'S and STI's with no issues or failures in 40s&w to date after loading thousands of rounds. Better safe than SOL.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 (edited) Sounds like an over pressure situation for sure. Either a double charge, bullet setback, or a squib Or maybe a weak case decided to let go. From an engineer's perspective, looks like only two possibilities: Either the case had a weak spot or it was subject to excessive pressure. Edited April 19, 2015 by bountyhunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterlingSomeone Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Glad no one was hurt. I had a glock do something similar about two years ago. It made me refocus on my loading and also double and triple check my 40 brass pre and post loading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelShooten Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 (edited) i think i will either buy a bulge buster or start buying roll sized brass. any ideas or words of wisdom is appreciated. I've seen this happen. Not quite as serious as your pistol but bad enough. I can offer some observations on 40 S&W brass: I load for a Scheumann barrel in an STI pistol. Even with a U-die, I had some cartridges that stopped short of chambering. After doing a chamber check on a batch of ammo I was often left with about 5% that either failed to drop all the way into the chamber or failed to drop back out without assistance. These were marked and set aside so they wouldn't end up with match ammo. There were several headstamps that failed to chamber after they had been sized. Consulting my loading notes.....a bunch of Winchester & PMC, some Speer, Federal, R-P, S&B, Fiocchi, Aguila. Depending on how reluctant they were to chamber I actually pulled them apart. There are several different Winchester 40 S&W headstamps. The older ones have "WINCHESTER 40 S & W" the newer ones have "WIN 40S&W" There are also several different PMC headstamps. "-PMC-" "∙PMC∙" and font changes with just "PMC". Federal has variations too. This is important because the headstamp lettering changes indicate the shells were made in different stamping dies. The really important characteristic is -inside- the shell where the case wall transistions into the case head. I found many of the rejects had circular cracks ("annular" is the proper word) in the flat area near the inner wall of case. At first I thought it might be lines left by the stamping die but I was able to poke a thin strip of steel shim stock into some of the cracks and photos taken with a digital microscope confirmed that the case wall was beginning to tear away from the case head. I'm finding that newer brass has a larger radius inside and this is a critical improvement. So I started to do a quick visual inspection on all the 40 S&W range brass that I load. Anything that appeared to have this interior crack in it was put aside. This is not hard to do with a good light source and seemed time well spent. The number of cartridges rejected at the chamber check dropped to less than 2%. None of the rejects in the newer batches were so bad that they wouldn't chamber, just not cleanly. I load several other calibers and none of them have issue. (there are some 9mm headstamps I reject on sight but I never found cracks) I also decided that if the brass is so badly bulged that it won't chamber, I'll scrap it. I -could- resize it make it fit, but I now interpret the original bulge as a warning. I would not recommend the bulge buster. I'm not slighting the equipment, but I am against the philosphy of trying to force bad brass to work. IF the case is partially torn already, pushing it into a sizing die does not repair the damage, it hides it. 40 brass is cheap. Some of it really is junk that I'm not interested in betting my gun or my hands on. The challenge is coming up with a system that works for you which can weed out the garbage. Edited April 30, 2015 by SteelShooten Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benellishooter3 Posted April 30, 2015 Author Share Posted April 30, 2015 Thanks for all of the replies, I haven't even shot the gun since I got it back. With the ammo left over from the original batch, I've found about 3 percent will not go into my buddies xdm 4.5 chamber even with full slide pressure. However they load perfectly fine in my 5.25. So we will be using his chamber for checking brass. I assume they checked out the barrel while it was back at the factory. Benellishooter3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHAVEGAS Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 Also the only modification to the gun is a drop in trigger kit from PRP. Did Springfield say anything about the trigger kit? Background: If you buy some of the PRP XD components, the paperwork that comes with them says do not dry fire (I do not have a list of which components this applies to). If you call PRP and ask WTF about no dry fire with a competition gun they will say something like "it is ok to dry fire some but not a lot". I sent an XD into Springfield with PRP components in it (pretty much maxed out on their stuff) for a match barrel installation. Springfield said it would not pass their safety tests and they would not send it back to me in its current condition, they were nice & dropped a stock sear & etc back in for free so they could return the gun. I called PRP again and asked WTF about safety tests because I had attempted to be very thorough and to follow their installation instructions to the letter, they mentioned a "pencil test / eraser test" that they do on installation but do not mention in their instructions. As I recall it was to drop a light object down in the barrel and with the gun facing upward trip the sear through the hole at the back of the slide without pulling the trigger. If the eraser pops up then your gun failed the test. So anyway, when I read the original post that stuff came to mind. (And I know that I will now be raped and left for the flies as I mentioned a diy modification that had a safety issue). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truborshooter Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 Was that a 'WIN' head stamped case or 'WWC' head stamp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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