Best fix for anticipating recoil?

[TDA]

Recoil doesn't hurt. It is the noise that initiates the flinch. Double up on ear pro.

Until we reach the heavy caliber pistols this is true. This noise and recoil sensitivity is the only true flinch when it comes to pre ignition push. Most active shooters work though this fairly quickly. What we are left with is the shooter subconsciously tries to compensate for recoil that hasn't happened yet. Ray Chapman called that being a Now shooter. This is why a shooter can do just fine when shooting slow but anticipates when they try to shoot faster. Shooting faster changes the timing of the trigger pull/ignition/recoil cycle. The conscious mind has to see and recognize the sight movement before the subconscious can begin to correct it. So, noise/recoil sensitivity=flinch. Recoil anticipation=not a flinch.

I agree that recoil anticipation is NOT a flinch. Yes, it will produce a downward movement of the pistol, as evidenced even by good shooters when they unexpectedly run dry and drop hammer on an empty chamber or dummy round. But this is not a fault really. And is not a flinch. It is a trained response. Just wanted to make that point and differentiate flinch from recoil anticipation.

+1 on this. The only time the push is a fault is when it is before ignition. Then it is the classic low left shot for a right handed shooter.

I'd buy that as well.

When I started shooting I chose .40 cal and shot it a lot using standard ball ammo, not lightly loaded hand loads, and was damn accurate with it.

After about a year of listening to all of the 9mm hype I decided to try 9mm and couldn't hit a damn thing with it. Apparently, I was programmed for .40 cal recoil.

It took me a long time and a lot of rounds before I was able to shoot 9mm as well as I did .40.

Now it makes no difference what I shoot.

Edited March 4, 2015 by TDA

[Robco]

Recoil doesn't hurt. It is the noise that initiates the flinch. Double up on ear pro.

Until we reach the heavy caliber pistols this is true. This noise and recoil sensitivity is the only true flinch when it comes to pre ignition push. Most active shooters work though this fairly quickly. What we are left with is the shooter subconsciously tries to compensate for recoil that hasn't happened yet. Ray Chapman called that being a Now shooter. This is why a shooter can do just fine when shooting slow but anticipates when they try to shoot faster. Shooting faster changes the timing of the trigger pull/ignition/recoil cycle. The conscious mind has to see and recognize the sight movement before the subconscious can begin to correct it. So, noise/recoil sensitivity=flinch. Recoil anticipation=not a flinch.

I agree that recoil anticipation is NOT a flinch. Yes, it will produce a downward movement of the pistol, as evidenced even by good shooters when they unexpectedly run dry and drop hammer on an empty chamber or dummy round. But this is not a fault really. And is not a flinch. It is a trained response. Just wanted to make that point and differentiate flinch from recoil anticipation.

+1 on this. The only time the push is a fault is when it is before ignition. Then it is the classic low left shot for a right handed shooter.

I'd buy that as well.

When I started shooting I chose .40 cal and shot it a lot using standard ball ammo, not lightly loaded hand loads, and was damn accurate with it.

After about a year of listening to all of the 9mm hype I decided to try 9mm and couldn't hit a damn thing with it. Apparently, I was programmed for .40 cal recoil.

It took me a long time and a lot of rounds before I was able to shoot 9mm as well as I did .40.

Now it makes no difference what I shoot.

Good point TDA. I think you experienced and overcame "timing" changes. Good job!

[gng4life]

Anticipation is a noun and flinch is a verb, they are very different things. Anticipation in medical terms is usually described as something that influences another or later response. Flinch is an act to move suddenly, sometimes in response to fear. So we can anticipate the recoil thus later causing a flinch. Pre-trigger press flinch is bad, post not so bad.

[Dwight Stearns]

Usually a person that has the blinking (eye flinch) issue immediately before the shot also has a recoil anticipation issue. First we need to fix the blink before we can address the anticipation. Of the two the blink is the easiest. The easiest way I have found to stop the blink is to have the shooter press their tongue into the roof of their mouth hard while they shoot. This can be added to the trick of shooting at nothing (berm) or actively watching for the brass to exit. Once the blink goes away they can start seeing the anticipation.

[touji]

These last 2 pages has been incredibly informative. I'll be keeping all of these things in mind and pay close attention to them the next time I have a chance to do some live fire.

[Robco]

Usually a person that has the blinking (eye flinch) issue immediately before the shot also has a recoil anticipation issue. First we need to fix the blink before we can address the anticipation. Of the two the blink is the easiest. The easiest way I have found to stop the blink is to have the shooter press their tongue into the roof of their mouth hard while they shoot. This can be added to the trick of shooting at nothing (berm) or actively watching for the brass to exit. Once the blink goes away they can start seeing the anticipation.

That is a cool method Dwight - pressing the tongue. Where did you learn that?

[Miranda]

wow.

these guys have said everything I use to avoid flinching.

dry fire. it is hard to exaggerate the benefits.

when I get to the range and start, I do not flinch nor blink

and I hit targets pretty true.

after a variable amount shooting the first thing I do

is find I did not see the shot break...

after that...blink... flinch... heel .. you name it, it goes wrong.

learn not to blink (it is the start of a flinch), you WILL see everything else if you are watching.

the fix is pretty easy once you SEE what mistakes you are making.

[TDA]

A method I used for the blink was to put 20 rounds of slugs through a 12ga 18" barrel automatic shotgun. I shoot a shotgun left handed so it's a bit more exciting not only having the explosion inches from my face, but having the ejection port right there as well!

After that a pistol at arms length was a non issue. No more blinking.

I also run a half dozen rounds of 44 magnum through a Blackhawk to keep the blinking tuned up.

Works for me!

[Dwight Stearns]

Usually a person that has the blinking (eye flinch) issue immediately before the shot also has a recoil anticipation issue. First we need to fix the blink before we can address the anticipation. Of the two the blink is the easiest. The easiest way I have found to stop the blink is to have the shooter press their tongue into the roof of their mouth hard while they shoot. This can be added to the trick of shooting at nothing (berm) or actively watching for the brass to exit. Once the blink goes away they can start seeing the anticipation.

That is a cool method Dwight - pressing the tongue. Where did you learn that?

I started with tightening my jaw muscles and that kind of worked but I found it wasn't enough. I needed more distraction and came up with the tongue. I believe it works by distracting the subconscious. But it does work.

[Uomu]

The other thing is that anticipating recoil can never be fixed, you will always know it is coming. How you deal with it its important, but you don't want to 'fix' anticipating it, you want to fix how you deal with it.

I know it sounds a bit stupid, but how you think of it changes how you deal with it. Recoil WILL come if you press the trigger, so you stiffen your wrists and you keep your eyes open so you can see the sights move because you can't know the gun is ready to go again unless you watched the sights return on target.

Recoil is not your enemy, it is the stuff that makes the gun work so love it and accept it and work with it, not against it.

Very good point to keep in mind!

[ktm300]

Try this;

Get some dummy ammo, load a mag with 2 live, then 1 dummy, 2 live, 1 dummy. The point is to know where the dummy is. Now fire two shots, know the dummy is next and see what happens when you pull the trigger. Not my idea but pretty amazing results when I did it.

[wmetzler01]

I'm going to start dry firing daily. Although just from last night I'm finding it frustrating to try and pull the trigger *straight* back without making the sights move. Ugh.

I'll also take the 22lr to the range and work on the other ideas people suggested.

Thanks for all the help and I'll let you know how it goes.

Update?

[vnboileau]

I haven't had a chance to get back to the range yet, but I've been dry firing every day. Mostly working on the trigger control.

In fact, I brought my gun with me on vacation. lol

[racerba]

Try this;

Get some dummy ammo, load a mag with 2 live, then 1 dummy, 2 live, 1 dummy. The point is to know where the dummy is. Now fire two shots, know the dummy is next and see what happens when you pull the trigger. Not my idea but pretty amazing results when I did it.

Better yet, mix in the dummy without knowing where the dummy round is, it will give you a more true results...

[Robco]

Try this;

Get some dummy ammo, load a mag with 2 live, then 1 dummy, 2 live, 1 dummy. The point is to know where the dummy is. Now fire two shots, know the dummy is next and see what happens when you pull the trigger. Not my idea but pretty amazing results when I did it.

Better yet, mix in the dummy without knowing where the dummy round is, it will give you a more true results...

I have done this a lot myself. And I mixed the dummies in a full mag, randomly, maybe 3 dummies in 18 round full mag. It definitely will demonstrate your anticipation reflex movement when you trigger on a dummy round and the muzzle dips down due to your hand movement absent the expected recoil.

BUT, this is NOT a flinch, necessarily. It COULD be also a flinch at the same time. But in my case, I still will have a gun dip down if I am surprised by a non-ignition when I expected recoil. This is NOT an error in my opinion, and is a natural and effective and proper trained response. To be able to shoot fast with a pistol, you have to anticipate and oppose the recoil, and your mind and body will do this automatically and timed perfectly with practice and training. It is NOT something you need to fix or train away.

So be careful to differentiate whether your muzzle dip on a surprise non-ignition situation, be it a dummy round or dud or empty chamber, etc, is actually a flinch or just a correct anticipation response.

[Dwight Stearns]

Try this;

Get some dummy ammo, load a mag with 2 live, then 1 dummy, 2 live, 1 dummy. The point is to know where the dummy is. Now fire two shots, know the dummy is next and see what happens when you pull the trigger. Not my idea but pretty amazing results when I did it.

Better yet, mix in the dummy without knowing where the dummy round is, it will give you a more true results...

I have done this a lot myself. And I mixed the dummies in a full mag, randomly, maybe 3 dummies in 18 round full mag. It definitely will demonstrate your anticipation reflex movement when you trigger on a dummy round and the muzzle dips down due to your hand movement absent the expected recoil.

BUT, this is NOT a flinch, necessarily. It COULD be also a flinch at the same time. But in my case, I still will have a gun dip down if I am surprised by a non-ignition when I expected recoil. This is NOT an error in my opinion, and is a natural and effective and proper trained response. To be able to shoot fast with a pistol, you have to anticipate and oppose the recoil, and your mind and body will do this automatically and timed perfectly with practice and training. It is NOT something you need to fix or train away.

So be careful to differentiate whether your muzzle dip on a surprise non-ignition situation, be it a dummy round or dud or empty chamber, etc, is actually a flinch or just a correct anticipation response.

+1

[shws]

Take the time at the range to incorporate some dry fire practice, after you notice a flinch on the ball and dummy drill. Then try again and again...

[vnboileau]

my dry firing dropped off the last week or so, but I spent enough time to feel like I was seeing the front sight and getting a better trigger press

so, I went to the range yesterday. I would say my groups were 20% smaller, but still had a flinch about 1/10 shots. and I recognized it as a flinch for sure. I was anticipating the shot, and pushing (and sometimes blinking) as I jerked the trigger. most of the time it was the first shot I fired. just so frustrating.

and as I'm flinching, I find myself instinctively looking over the front sight to see where the shot landed. ugh.

I might just go back to shooting .22 exclusively until I get over this.

p,s. and this was outdoors, with plugs and muffs

[Smeeg]

Hi, my name is Chris and I'm a flincher.

I've been shooting for the past 2 years, but through those 2 years, I only went to the range shooting a .22lr pistol maybe 3 times a year. This year, I'm shooting a .45 and I've been to the range about 5 times since the begining of February working on my fundamental, etc, so take this with a grain of salt as I'm still learning.

After hours of dryfiring, I've gotten to a point where I can pull the trigger and keep my sights relatively still, but when I live fire, I was still shooting low and left, and flinching like crazy. One thing that I noiced while I was shooting real ammo was that my trigger finger wasn't doing what it's been training to do. I found myself pulling the trigger back with what felt like 300% more force durinig live fire than with dry fire. I was forgetting what the clean break on my 1911 should feel like and was pulling the trigger back as hard as I could, which inadvertently created a reflex to flinch. This made my flinch even worse.

The problem has gotten a lot better, as I am now focusing on remembering how much pressure it takes to break the trigger. My road to recovery is well under way and I've already seen a lot of improvement in my shooting. YMMV.

Thanks for the laugh and advice

[Smeeg]

I'm a flincher by nature. And I had a bad flinch a few years ago. The best advice came from this very forum, and is premised on the notion that the flinch begins (and ends) with the eyes.

Go to the range with the softest-recoiling gun you've got - a .22lr is ideal. Don't put up a target. Just aim at the backstop and watch the gun go off as you pull the trigger. Don't worry about hitting anything in particular, so long as the bullets are going someplace safe. Just watch the gun go off. See how much you can see. Can you see the slide operate? Can you see the brass eject? Can you see the muzzle flash? If you can't, you're flinching with your eyes. Keep shooting and keep watching. You're not trying to do anything but observe.

Once you start seeing things happening while the gun is going off and recoiling, direct your attention to the front sight. See if you can watch it jump/rise in recoil when the gun goes off. See if you can see the muzzle flash at the same time. Keep trying until you can watch the front sight jump up and settle back down. No goals except to see.

Once you can see the front sight rise in recoil - and not before! - you can hang a target. Use a big one. Aim at the middle. If you hit it, great... as long as you see the front sight. Shoot a bit this way. If you start losing the front sight or stop seeing the gun go off, take the target down.

Eventually, you'll notice that you're shooting fairly compact groups without that low-left trail that the flinch induces. When you get to that point, you can start aiming small, focusing on a careful trigger pull, etc. But as long as you aren't flinching with your eyes, you are unlikely to mechanically flinch. Just keep seeing and the flinch will go away.

Eventually, move up in power if that's your goal. You may have to repeat the process as you move from .22lr to 9mm, or from 9mm to .40 major. Or from .38 special to .44 magnum. The key is to see. As long as you can see the gun going off, your brain will pretty quickly correct out the flinch.

That's the advice I got. It has worked for me. If I don't shoot for several weeks, sometimes I have to repeat parts of this process, though it's faster every time. The first time through, you might spend 500 or 1,000 rounds of ammo.

I'll try this thanks makes perfect sense

[Logger]

Don't know if you want advice from a newbie, but i cure my flinching by balancing a spent 9 mm casing on the front sight of my 45. I then squeeze the trigger so smoothly that the spent cartridge does not fall off.

A cheap cure that works on glocks & 1911's. Not sure about other pistols, but it sure cured me.