Target Acquisition Speed

[b1gcountry]

I hope so. Sometimes it doesn't feel like I make any progress.

Thinking about it some more, you are shooting at a small close target of you shoot a 7yd plate rack. Your front sight tracks well above the plate in recoil, so even if you don't watch the plate, you can lose focus trying to pick the front sight back up because the front sight is silhouetted against the berm during recoil.

I also get distracted when a plate takes a while to fall, but that is just a distraction i need to ignore.

Edited March 11, 2015 by b1gcountry

[Robco]

I hope so. Sometimes it doesn't feel like I make any progress.

Thinking about it some more, you are shooting at a small close target of you shoot a 7yd plate rack. Your front sight tracks well above the plate in recoil, so even if you don't watch the plate, you can lose focus trying to pick the front sight back up because the front sight is silhouetted against the berm during recoil.

I also get distracted when a plate takes a while to fall, but that is just a distraction i need to ignore.

Well, next time you do live fire on a plate rack, really OBSERVE what your eyes are actually doing. I think you may be surprised.

In my opinion, and experience, your eye does NOT track the front sight in recoil. You notice it lift, but your eye stays where it was prior to the lift = on the target. Same for plates or paper. If the shot is the first of a pair, then your eyes stay on the target during recoil, waiting for the sight to return back down onto the target again, creating your next sight picture for the ordered pair split shot. If the shot is your last on that target, whether paper or plate, etc., then when the front sight lifts, you call the shot good, and right then, while still IN recoil, move your eyes to the next target. The gun then follows behind your eyes over to the next target.

So, if what I described above is true, for you, then 1) you do not track the front sight with your eyes during recoil, and 2) you do not focus on the berm because you are either still focused on the target for a second shot to come OR moving your eye to the next target before the plate falls. In either, you never would focus on the berm.

Good stuff to really think about and be aware of while shooting - will raise your awareness level and also train you to SEE more and better during shooting!

[Nimitz]

I also get distracted when a plate takes a while to fall, but that is just a distraction i need to ignore.

so if the above is true then i would think this is an indication that you have not called the shot because if you had, since the plate is falling, you should have called a good shot which means you eyes would have already moved off that plate and on to the next one which means you would not get distracted by it falling since you wouldn't see it fall ..... yes?

[b1gcountry]

I also get distracted when a plate takes a while to fall, but that is just a distraction i need to ignore.

so if the above is true then i would think this is an indication that you have not called the shot because if you had, since the plate is falling, you should have called a good shot which means you eyes would have already moved off that plate and on to the next one which means you would not get distracted by it falling since you wouldn't see it fall ..... yes?

I do not claim to be very good at shot calling. Mostly though, I think I missed when I didn't.

I am usually able to see the plate fall even when I am a plate or two past the falling one.

[rowdyb]

I really dig what you said a few posts above about intensity. That was a big shortcoming for me. I was so focused on being in a relaxed state that it did effect my "vision". I was moving too fast for how much attention I was giving. That's why I think all my mikes were on static targets and most of them occured over transitioning the gun.

Intentisty of focus! This weekend's match motto.

[Robco]

I really dig what you said a few posts above about intensity. That was a big shortcoming for me. I was so focused on being in a relaxed state that it did effect my "vision". I was moving too fast for how much attention I was giving. That's why I think all my mikes were on static targets and most of them occurred over transitioning the gun.

Intensity of focus! This weekend's match motto.

Cool. I am getting a lot out of this discussion too. I started another post today which I am sure you would find interesting rowdyb. Check it out at the link below. A ton of good stuff coming from fellow shooters.

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=211644#entry2353266

[benos]

I really dig what you said a few posts above about intensity. That was a big shortcoming for me. I was so focused on being in a relaxed state that it did effect my "vision". I was moving too fast for how much attention I was giving. That's why I think all my mikes were on static targets and most of them occured over transitioning the gun.

Intentisty of focus! This weekend's match motto.

Also think DELIBERATE - visually. When we get sloppy, visually, is when we miss "easy" static targets. For EVERY target - find (see) the center of the target, shoot the center of the target.

[Robco]

I really dig what you said a few posts above about intensity. That was a big shortcoming for me. I was so focused on being in a relaxed state that it did effect my "vision". I was moving too fast for how much attention I was giving. That's why I think all my mikes were on static targets and most of them occured over transitioning the gun.

Intentisty of focus! This weekend's match motto.

Also think DELIBERATE - visually. When we get sloppy, visually, is when we miss "easy" static targets. For EVERY target - find (see) the center of the target, shoot the center of the target.

Well said. It is difficult to describe and put into words, but the intensity with which we are actively SEEING is what we are all talking about. Casually observing is not conducive to a good performance. Kind of like the difference in reading a novel, or a law book. Yes, both are "reading" but our required level of attention and focus on the information is very different. Having to understand the material being read well enough to stand up if front of the class the next day in law school and answer the prof's question without looking like an idiot, makes one READ with a little more intensity!

Same thing comparing sloppy "practice" and a big match performance. We need to make BOTH of those activities the SAME - highly involved and active SEEING.

I am going to go shoot a night steel match in a few hours, and since I cannot normally see worth a damn at night matches, I am going for the sole purpose of forcing myself under match pressure, to SEE what I need to see for each shot, even if it takes a long time to do it with iron sights in the dark. Will be interesting. I have two USPSA day matches this weekend, and want to try to get my act together for them.

Brian, did not even notice I was replying to your post here, until I came back to edit it for two typos. I have listened to your book on Audio so many times and hours in the last two weeks that I almost have it all memorized now! Awesome stuff. The more I learn about shooting the more your book makes sense to me! It is absolutely the foundational framework within which I am approaching and beginning to understand these SEEING concepts.

Edited March 12, 2015 by Robco

[benos]

In the end, for each shot, it comes down to maintaining a state of continuous knowing: Know whether (or not) you saw the center of the target; know whether (or not) you saw the sights stop there; know whether (or not) you saw the front sight lift from that spot. And repeat, forever.

[Robco]

In the end, for each shot, it comes down to maintaining a state of continuous knowing: Know whether (or not) you saw the center of the target; know whether (or not) you saw the sights stop there; know whether (or not) you saw the front sight lift from that spot. And repeat, forever.

Wow! That really connects some dots for me Brian!

I have heard and been trained to maintain a continuous AIMING while triggering, and that has been very helpful to me and others. Just as you, I did NOT say "sight picture." That is such a confusing concept and description which is used in so many ways it becomes confusing. This continuous aiming really helps have good trigger control - by avoiding "jumping" on the trigger the first time a "sight picture" shows up.

This whole concept of "continuity" and "continuous" is very telling. It properly characterizes shooting as a process and not a mechanical sequence of unrelated, distinct actions. This is a terrific reminder of this reality.

Also, this is the second time you reminded us here of picking and aiming at the CENTER spot of our appropriate target area of aim. Not a general SEEING of the entire target aiming area. Aim small, miss small. I cannot wait to shoot the match tonight with these reminders in mind!

Thanks!

[Robco]

You know, I have long realized that it is a matter of COURAGE (and it closely related cousin, CONFIDENCE) to be yourself and shoot a match at your own actual ability. This is, of course, both our proper mindset and competition goal, and what so many of us give "lip service" to, and then proceed to "TRY" or "go Faster" when the beeper sounds.

When we work hard at improving in this sport, we often put match performance on a pedestal and work ourselves into a lather and mental mess before each match. This makes it much more difficult to just "let go" and "trust yourself and your shooting" for the match performance. If we could genuinely shoot a match not giving a sh@t about it, most of us would have a better chance to put up a better performance - one at our true ability and skill level.

But, it is properly against the rules to "smoke some weed" before a match! So I guess I have to work on my mental game instead.

[Robco]

Target acquisition is composed of many techniques and components. We have discussed many of them in this thread. But one that bears additional mention is also the simplest to learn and implement and benefit from immediately, without much training at all. It is more a culmination of our INTENT to be shooting as much of the time as possible while the clock is running. Any time we are not shooting, we are losing points.

While watching Ben Stoeger's "Training to Win" video again just now, he reminded me of something I have really strongly adopted now, in my match performances, as of all of Area 2 last weekend.

"Aiming through the wall" when transitioning. This is one of the simplest and easiest things to learn and execute on, and guaranties faster transitions.

ESPECIALLY easy to accomplish with mesh material stage wall props! But works as well on solid walls and barrels and barricades.

When moving to a new location or swinging across a barricade, and you are unable to be shooting on the move, then the key is to be ready and shoot the next shot as soon as possible. And here, the earliest time possible is when you can see the target without obstruction. So, for example, you are shooting a target on the left of a wall, then have to move right to see and engage the next target. As you are moving to the right, keep your gun up and grip maintained, and eyes looking down your arms/gun searching actively for the next target, knowing exactly where it will appear vertically as you come to the edge of the wall - and will then first be able to engage the target. If it is a mesh wall, then you can actually SEE the target thru the wall as you make this move, and AIM at it as if you were shooting it, but have to wait till you clear the wall. The instant you do clear the wall edge, you can obtain an immediate sight picture and fire the shot. = No delay while getting your gun up, or your grip re-established, or your eyes in the triangle for aiming and shooting. If it is an easy target, you can even shoot it before you come to a stand still, and I usually do. ALL of those aspects (gun up, grip established, eyes looking thru arms/gun triangle) are ALREADY intact and you can release a shot within perhaps 1/10th of a second of VISUALLY clearing the wall. This is a KEY way to cut down transition times.

On solid walls/barrels/barricades, pick a vertical mark on the prop which indicates the height of the next target before you can see it, and have your gun up and aiming "thru" this height level mark as you move to the hidden target, and then you are lined up instantly on the target when it pops into vision. I used sponsor banner tops, rings on barrels, screw or bullet holes etc on barricades or walls as these types of markers. It makes a huge difference in efficiency of being ready at the EARLIEST possible moment to fire the next (transition) shot.

I actually did this in Area 2 on many occasions, and if you watch videos of top shooters, they ALL do this whenever possible. There is no better an example or visual image to represent how being ready to fire the next shot, as EARLY as possible permits FAST transitions.

Here below is a link to a 1 minute video I just made for this post, containing some relevant clip excerpts from my Area 2 match, illustrating these types of transition techniques. I could have performed some better by staying further from a wall, and thus not having to bring the gun back to high ready to clear the wall when swinging to next target. Video taught me this about myself - which is WHY I record myself - for learning and training information.

[b1gcountry]

Well, next time you do live fire on a plate rack, really OBSERVE what your eyes are actually doing. I think you may be surprised.

In my opinion, and experience, your eye does NOT track the front sight in recoil. You notice it lift, but your eye stays where it was prior to the lift = on the target. Same for plates or paper. If the shot is the first of a pair, then your eyes stay on the target during recoil, waiting for the sight to return back down onto the target again, creating your next sight picture for the ordered pair split shot.

You are right. I was shooting some plate racks during my practice yesterday, and I definitely didn't follow the sights up above the plates. I did however come VERY close to my goal of being able to shoot a sub 4 second 8yd plate rack on demand. My first try after warming up at 25yd was about 5 seconds. I started in bullseye mode with 0.8s transitions, but sped up to 0.4 by the second half.

My next four runs were 3.99, 4.01, 4.08, and 3.29 (but i missed the last plate, and was in slide lock.)

I really felt like I was seeing the plates better than normal. Shooting 4.00 with no misses actually felt kind of casual. Like I want really hurrying, I just pulled the trigger once I saw what I needed to see.

I also did a dot torture drill for the first time, and that was a challenge. I definitely noticed that you don't have any time to adjust your sights, you either bring the gun down to the right place or you don't. I managed to get a little better, but not a whole lot until i moved up to 5yds.

[Robco]

Well, next time you do live fire on a plate rack, really OBSERVE what your eyes are actually doing. I think you may be surprised.

In my opinion, and experience, your eye does NOT track the front sight in recoil. You notice it lift, but your eye stays where it was prior to the lift = on the target. Same for plates or paper. If the shot is the first of a pair, then your eyes stay on the target during recoil, waiting for the sight to return back down onto the target again, creating your next sight picture for the ordered pair split shot.

You are right. I was shooting some plate racks during my practice yesterday, and I definitely didn't follow the sights up above the plates. I did however come VERY close to my goal of being able to shoot a sub 4 second 8yd plate rack on demand. My first try after warming up at 25yd was about 5 seconds. I started in bullseye mode with 0.8s transitions, but sped up to 0.4 by the second half.

My next four runs were 3.99, 4.01, 4.08, and 3.29 (but i missed the last plate, and was in slide lock.)

I really felt like I was seeing the plates better than normal. Shooting 4.00 with no misses actually felt kind of casual. Like I want really hurrying, I just pulled the trigger once I saw what I needed to see.

I also did a dot torture drill for the first time, and that was a challenge. I definitely noticed that you don't have any time to adjust your sights, you either bring the gun down to the right place or you don't. I managed to get a little better, but not a whole lot until i moved up to 5yds.

That is good progress! Anytime you SEE more is a big deal. How did that feel? Remember that feeling. So you can repeat it. It is impressive that you are keeping good detailed records of your practice session, and analyzing it.

[SonOfSpartans]

Hydration cannot be ignored.

[Partagas]

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=109493&page=11&hl=%26quot%3Btransition+drill%26quot%3B#entry2350721

Transition Drill

Brian and Rob, this may be getting back towards the beginning of the thread. Rob you were wondering about speeding up the transitions and that segwayed into the eye exercise topic. Brian had put up this drill last year and I thought he may bring up that drill.

Rob, I was wondering if you have tried it or similar and wondered what your guys' thoughts were on how that drill ties into the evolved thread?

Rusty

[Robco]

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=109493&page=11&hl=%26quot%3Btransition+drill%26quot%3B#entry2350721

Transition Drill

Brian and Rob, this may be getting back towards the beginning of the thread. Rob you were wondering about speeding up the transitions and that segwayed into the eye exercise topic. Brian had put up this drill last year and I thought he may bring up that drill.

Rob, I was wondering if you have tried it or similar and wondered what your guys' thoughts were on how that drill ties into the evolved thread?

Rusty

Rusty, I have not done this drill, yet. I just found it in the old post you referenced, a couple days ago. I will do it next week. I have done MANY like it, usually with the targets a lot farther apart, and sometimes at 15 and 20 yards. I like one per target as that gives the most transitions/training for the round count obviously. Travis Tomasie taught me to do this similar drill for the purposes of increasing transition speed. I will do Brian's art 1 next week and report my own results.

What about the Part 2 Brian teased about? He got my curiosity up, 5 years later when I read it for the first time this week!

Here is the drill from the July 2010 post in the thread referenced by Rusty.

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=109493&page=1#entry1243616

It took me quite a while to find this old post, so I started a thread with it to make it easier to find later...

And for a live-fire drill, next time you're at the range, try the following drill.

Set up 3 IPSC targets at 10 yards, about a yard a apart, edge to edge. Only hits in the A box count. On the buzzer draw and shoot one shot at each target - left to right, then repeat left to right, then repeat again left to right - for a total of 9 shots. Check your time, add a half second for each non-A, and note your score. You don't really care about your score that much, just remember it for later. Shoot a 6 - 10 strings, to establish an average score. While you're establishing your average - you're just shooting like you normally would. Don't try any new tricks or anything at all. In the end just know your average score for the drill.

As I was typing part 2, I thought of a way to keep it real. There won't be a part 2 until you go to the range and do part 1. Then PM me, and I'll reply with part 2.

be

[BeerBaron]

Robco, I'd love to tell you the mysterious part 2 but it wouldn't be fair to our host. He still replies to pm's. I did part 1 and pm'd him for part 2.

Without giving too much away it's about understanding what needs to happen for fast transitions.

As I said to Brian at the time as I developed from a truly horrible shooter (had some vision issues and a big motorbike accident which left me with a plate and 9 pins in my strong hand shoulder) into a better one, my splits improved (no problem running sub 0.20 splits on open targets), accuracy improved, movement improved, reload speed and gun handling improved, speed into and out of positions improved etc but one place I felt lagged behind the rest was truly transitions.

For fast transitions you should really be snapping your eyes/head to the next target before the gun gets there and as soon as your eyes see sights in the a-box the shot should be made and your eyes moving off to the next target.

There's a vid on youtube where travis tomasie illustrates this in an el pres drill and talks about snapping eyes ahead of the gun. it's from 1:42 in this vid:

I actually find it really hard to do. Especially with an open gun as I'm basically always looking at target and almost 'sensing' the dot. so I basically don't loose the dot at all during an array like an el pres. this tells me my transitions are way too slow. For example a sub 2 second bill drill is no problem for me with all A's and a slooow draw of around 1-1.2sec but on things like el pres where I can do a solid 1.3-1.5 reload and .2 splits I know I'm leaving time on the table with transitions.

I am slowly improving them (especially on steel) but I do find it's one skill I've found hard to improve.

[Robco]

Robco, I'd love to tell you the mysterious part 2 but it wouldn't be fair to our host. He still replies to pm's. I did part 1 and pm'd him for part 2.

Without giving too much away it's about understanding what needs to happen for fast transitions.

As I said to Brian at the time as I developed from a truly horrible shooter (had some vision issues and a big motorbike accident which left me with a plate and 9 pins in my strong hand shoulder) into a better one, my splits improved (no problem running sub 0.20 splits on open targets), accuracy improved, movement improved, reload speed and gun handling improved, speed into and out of positions improved etc but one place I felt lagged behind the rest was truly transitions.

For fast transitions you should really be snapping your eyes/head to the next target before the gun gets there and as soon as your eyes see sights in the a-box the shot should be made and your eyes moving off to the next target.

There's a vid on youtube where travis tomasie illustrates this in an el pres drill and talks about snapping eyes ahead of the gun. it's from 1:42 in this.....

I actually find it really hard to do. Especially with an open gun as I'm basically always looking at target and almost 'sensing' the dot. so I basically don't loose the dot at all during an array like an el pres. this tells me my transitions are way too slow. For example a sub 2 second bill drill is no problem for me with all A's and a slooow draw of around 1-1.2sec but on things like el pres where I can do a solid 1.3-1.5 reload and .2 splits I know I'm leaving time on the table with transitions.

I am slowly improving them (especially on steel) but I do find it's one skill I've found hard to improve.

BeerBaron (cool name by the way!) - I have watched that video of Travis (T) many times. Thanks for referencing it for the eye-transition part which is perfect for this post. T is a great guy and good friend. His prowess is particularly amazing when you take into consideration that he is literally, legally blind without his corrective glasses/contacts! So much for all of our vision related excuses, huh!

No problem on the Part 2, I appreciate your discretion and will PM Enos for it after I actually do Part 1 myself again.

I am well aware of the need for moving the eyes to the next target while the gun is still in recoil on last shot, once called "good." This is really the main place time can be wasted or saved on transitions, especially when the feet are not moving during the process. Obviously body movement to a new location during a transition uses other skills in addition to the eye portion.

I think a general mindset and attitude to hold while shooting USPSA type competition, is to maintain an overall INTENT and DESIRE and HUNGER to shoot the next shot as soon as possible. This means be aggressively and actively seeking the next "sight picture" at the earliest possible moment. Always.

This can culminate in MANY different ways during shooting a course of fire. Calling each shot is the pre-req always. Then adjusting the degree and type of follow thru on each shot once called, so as not to waste time giving more follow thru than was necessary. As in shooting a plate rack, one should not wait to see the sights return back down to the plate just shot, or wait to see it fall, before moving the eyes and then the gun to the next plate. Generally, unless shooting the rack from 50 yards or so, one should be moving the eyes as soon as the sights lift, and the gun while still in recoil, to the next plate. This is how transition times are cut, NOT by "pulling the trigger faster" as many novices do attempting to mimic a top shooter's performance.

Like pointing our fingers at something, the gun should always follow closely BEHIND the eyes. First things first, you must ALWAYS see the target first in any draw or transition. Brian Enos, step one of three = find the target. And the hand eye coordination can be highly developed so that the gun more quickly arrives and settles on where the eyes are looking, instead of stopping short or swinging past the target and then having to waste the time to adjust the aim. Sight alignment should always be automatic and assumed here, due to training.

This same "look first" concept is utilized constantly in my shooting, like doing speed reloads (we look at the mag well while reloading) or looking at the gun when picking it up off a table, or looking at my gun/holster at the start position if it is an odd position like leaning to hold hands on X's on a wall, or stretching my body in a fast exploding to a run position, or when "shooting thru a wall" as described in my post above (link below). The efficiency advantages of seeing the target as soon as possible is a key to cutting transition times. Mated with also having the gun up on target and maybe even trigger prepped before the target can be engaged.

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=210804&page=3#entry2354308

This can ALL be practiced easily and as T said in his video, start out slowly, moving the eyes while gun is still in recoil, then moving gun to where you are looking, etc. Speed will come with training on anything, and this is no exception. I have learned with my own journey and by training over a dozen shooters, that almost EVERYTHING is hard or uncomfortable at first try. Training is how we make the correct techniques feel natural and comfortable, eventually. When it becomes "second nature" then you have developed SKILL and you will then be able to perform that skill efficiently and fast.

Edited March 17, 2015 by Robco

[shws]

The trick is learning to trust your site, and pressing the trigger as soon as it's on target.

[benos]

The trick is learning to trust your site, and pressing the trigger as soon as it's on target.

Yes. For me I called that shooting at the earliest opportunity.

[Robco]

The trick is learning to trust your site, and pressing the trigger as soon as it's on target.

Yes. For me I called that shooting at the earliest opportunity.

Yep. Reduce the time when we are not shooting to the bare minimum. Maximize points per second!

[BeerBaron]

yes, I know I leave time on the table doing that in both irons and red dot. sight picture is acceptable (and in fact is not improving) but I stand looking at it for that brief moment too long. those moments add up in a stage let alone a whole match. That comes back to intent/aggressiveness a bit too.

As I said, improving transitions (and for the sake of this discussion I'm talking one shooting position shooting an array of 2 or more targets) has been one of the slower skills to develop for me and I think it's the same for a lot of people.

[Robco]

yes, I know I leave time on the table doing that in both irons and red dot. sight picture is acceptable (and in fact is not improving) but I stand looking at it for that brief moment too long. those moments add up in a stage let alone a whole match. That comes back to intent/aggressiveness a bit too.

As I said, improving transitions (and for the sake of this discussion I'm talking one shooting position shooting an array of 2 or more targets) has been one of the slower skills to develop for me and I think it's the same for a lot of people.

All the little time wasters add up. I trained a Navy Seal this afternoon. We focused on how many ways time is lost on so many aspects of a USPSA performance. It is pretty eye-opening to actually go thru all the motions, on the clock, and see how a half second here, and 2/10ths here, and a full second here, adds up to several seconds per stage, and perhaps as much as 45 seconds a match! Death by a thousand cuts.

[Robco]

I made a related reply to another post last night, and wanted to reference it in this topic instead of repeating it. Some of it is repetitious, but some nuances too.

I am DEEPLY immersed into this exact subject right now in my shooting, full time. So lots of revelations occurring to me, almost daily.

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=205039#entry2366742