Issues with Bayou 180gr TCG... crooked

[screwj]

Hi guys, i'm fairly new to reloading, its been about a year. I recently moved to 40 major from shooting 9 minor and have been learning the quarks about loading 40. Most of my issues were a small number of rounds loading MG 180 JHP seating crooked enough to not fit a Lyman case gauge, about 5% fail rate. Someone suggested I get the redding competition seating die, which I did, and actually have fixed my problem. I also was using the EGW U die, but switched back to the Lee full size without issues.

Then I decided to try out the bayous since i've read only good things about it. Same setup, 180gr bayou TCG, OAL is 1.2, but now I get 50% rejects because they are too crooked either at the middle of the casing, or the bullet starts running into the case stop and scrapes the polymer exposing lead. I've tried changing the redding die to seat as low as possible (touching the plate) and also tried raising it higher thinking I might be setting the bullet to early into the spring load in the die.

Has anyone had similar issues with Bayou or any cast/moly bullets? Im thinking of just going back to MG or Zero.

Thanks much guys!!

[darkvibe]

I load bayou 180 TCG bullets and seat with a redding competition die and have zero issues so it's not an issue inherent with the bullets and seating die. I've pulled several bullets and the coating is not scraped off anywhere.

Is failing the case gauge the only way you know there is an issue with the crooked ones or is it visibly defective?

When my rounds come around to where I set the bullet into the case, the whole base of the bullet fits in the expanded case mouth and the seater pushes it straight in. The bullet never gets crooked.

What are you using for an expander?

Edited February 24, 2015 by darkvibe

[earthshine402]

you need to expand more if you are shaving lead.

also, I recommend buying the expander insert from Mr. Bullet Feeder - it doesn't make a simple trumpet bell like the Dillon expander - it almost cuts out a straight section and then does the trumpet.. this makes the bullets sit very straight when you place them in the case.

[screwj]

Thank guys. I am using the Dillon expander. I checked to see if you can get just the Bullet Feeder expander but I can't find it anywhere.

How much are you guys expanding the case i.e. 2-3 mm of expanded neck?

[darkvibe]

I use a Hornady PTX and expand until the bullet drops into the case without tipping over on the way to the next station. Never measured. Basically the minimum expansion I can get away with.

[screwj]

I am probably not expanding enough; depending on the size of the casing (some longer than others), it looks like I am not expanding enough on the short ones.

[darkvibe]

Yeah, i expand just enough so the shortest cases work fine. I don't sort cases and load all sorts of random brands.

[zzt]

My guess is you have a brass problem. All my 40sw brass is police range pick up. A lot of it has been fired from Glocks. Even when you size the really Glocked pieces back to speck, the case wall is weakened on the originally bulged side. No matter how straight you seat the bullet in these damaged cases, it will bulge on one side. You can clearly see this. Sometimes is is bulged and a little crooked. Those cases, when reloaded, never pass in my EGW checker. They go into the practice bin. My TS will mostly chamber and shoot them, so I do and discard that brass.

I think you are noticing the problem more now because you switched from a 0.400" dia bullet to a 0.401". That can make all the difference in the world when chamber checking. Perhaps you can try some BBI bullets. They are supposed to be .400.

[darkvibe]

The bullet diameter is a good point. I use a hundo case gauge but the hi-tek coated bullets won't always drop all the way into the gauge. If i drop it in case head first it hits the end of the gauge no problem. Your gauge might be the same way.

[earthshine402]

Here are some websites where you can find the Mr. Bullet Feeder expander:

http://www.doublealpha.biz/bulletfeeder/powder-funnel

I bought a .40 and later a 9mm version right from the inventor of the Mr. Bullet Feeder at http://www.mrbulletfeeder.com/buy-now/

I had to get him on the phone to give him my credit card info, and got the part a few days later..

RAK SYSTEMS LLC,
Mr. Rick Koskela
(480) 235-8864
rick@mrbulletfeeder.com
www.mrbulletfeeder.biz

[screwj]

Thanks for the great information! I'm going to try a few things tonight.

[screwj]

Looks like I am still having a few issues. However, I think the case not fitting is no longer happening after i widened the bell. Now, it looks like when the bullet is not seated completely straight, it slightly rubs on the inner portion of the case gauge and causes the green off the bayous to come off if I push it in hard enough. I think this may be because of the thicker coating on the Bayous (.401), so I am wondering if maybe it is negligible. I tried a non-primered dummy load that had issues going into the case gauge, but went chambered in my sti edge fine.

May I ask what case gauge you guys use for poly/molys/coated?

Edited February 25, 2015 by screwj

[earthshine402]

I use the Dillon case gauge for .401 Ibejiheads.. most of the time they all pass.. last time I loaded 500, I had one not pass..

I recently bought my first case of 9mm Bayous and had a similar experience in that an alarmingly high percentage (more than 1 in 500, more like 10-20%) would not pass my case gauge. I "fixed" it by running those rounds through a LEE FCD and then later using the FCD in the normal loading process for those rounds.. I still ended up with having a bunch be tight in the gauge, but at least they passed.

my .40 die setup: EGW undersize die, Mr. Bullet Feeder expander, Dillon seat, Dillon crimp

my 9mm die setup: EGW undersize die (not sure I really need it for 9..), Mr. Bullet Feeder expander, Dillon seat, LEE Factory Crimp Die

[darkvibe]

What are you using to crimp after seating the bullet? I'm having a hard time imagining a bullet being crooked after being seated and then run through a crimp die.

[busdriver]

I had the same problem but a higher failure rate. 20% or more would fail to case gauge. Donnie even sent me some sized to .400. That didn't really help either. I am also using the mr bullet feed expander. Tried everything and could not get them to consistently seat straight, which is a shame because I really liked the bayou bullets.

I think zzt is correct about bulged or (glocked) brass. Of the rounds that failed to case gauge, I noticed the case looked coke bottle shaped on one side but was straight on the opposite side.

[KevinB]

I've been having this issue as well with the Bayou Bullets. I have run them through a Lee FCD and that fixes most of them at the expense of accuracy downrange. FCD's bullets are giving me a 12" circle at 25 yards, and the factory ammo I ran right behind it gave me 2".

I've done a few things to try and mitigate the problem, like switching back from the U die to the standard Dillon sizing die in case the narrower case was causing too much friction on the seating operation and expanding the case neck more, but so far no luck. I'm really trying to get the Bayou Bullets to work because I'm tired of switching between jacketed for matches and "other" for practice and I like supporting a shooting family who are now making bullets.

[screwj]

Last night, I took out all the rejects (crooked and won't seat completely into case gauge) that would chamber in the gun and shot it. Amazingly, the Bayous are pretty damn accurate even if they are seated crooked from my perspective. All the things you guys responded with is exactly what I am going through, so i've decided to order the Mr. Bullet Feeder expander and try it out. Also, I think I am down to about 20% rejects as well, but I think one of the major factors is the Lyman case gauge not being able to fit .401 diameters well. I ended up ordering Ben Stoegers 100-rd case gauge that accounts for 40 long and allows .4015 to fit. Hopefully, this will give me a better pass rate on this load.

[darkvibe]

I use that 100 round 40-long case gauge and not every bullet will fit in it. I have to help some of them in with a decent push or drop the round in case first to see if the brass is bulged or if the bullet is keeping it from dropping in.

[zzt]

I doubt the Mr. Bulletfeeder will cure the problem. I In fact, i'm quite sure it won't. I'm going to order one anyway, because it should completely eliminate the possibility of shaving poly off coated bullets. I may get one in 45 also, just in case I decide to shoot poly there.

[trp]

I use bayou bullets in 40 load to 1.185 using egw u die and and Dillion's for the rest of the stations no problems, I think you really just need to get the bell perfect and when setting the bullet on the casing make sure it's straight

I did have a few problems at first but they've been perfect running for the last 8k

[jsg]

I have had a similar issue in 45 loading Zero jacketed 230. I changed my seating dies to better match the bullet profile and I make every attempt to get the bullet very near perfectly centered as it enters the seating die. That lowered my "rejects" substantially but it is slower fiddling with each bullet's alignment..

[kellymc]

I received my first Bayou 180gr bullets two days ago. Loaded 175 tonight 1.140 minor using a lee 3 die set with the sizer die being the EGW U die. My bell was just enough there were no shaving. I didn't pay a lot of attention to seating the bullet perfectly. All 175 pass the Dillon case gauge.

I have seen that bulge before and thought it was a crooked bullet. I wish I could remember if it was before or after a got the U die

[Fredlegentil]

I also have a high reject % (about 15%) due to crooked bullets (Bayou 180). Would investing in the redding seating die solve my problems? (currently using lee deluxe)

[Fredlegentil]

Well I got the redding die and so far so good, this thing is expensive but what a difference!

[busdriver]

Decided to give em one more try. This time I got the new bullets without a wax groove. I'm happy to report that these work much better. Very few fail to case gauge, and bayou's customer service is outstanding!