snokid Posted December 31, 2001 Share Posted December 31, 2001 Hi everyone... First I would thank Brian for the get forum and book, they have been ever so helpful. Ok here's a short history of my shooting. I'm 36 and until march of 2001 I had never fired a pistol in my life, then it all changed my buddy went shopping for a gun and I tagged along, he would rent guns to try out and talk me into shooting them also. Well I got the bug real bad, I bought a glock 34 and competed in a local gssf shoot (I didn't do well) I also classifed for idpa novice 217. fast forward a few months I went to the state idpa match here in michigan and won ssp novice now I was very pumped up. here's how I practice now.... I go to the range 2 or 3 times a week 150-200 round each session. I dry fire every other day about 15 mins. I read everything that I can get my hands on. Ok here's what I need the help on... I set my goal to be a master shooter in idpa in april last night I shot the classifer and I shot sharpshooter 151 was my score. I need to get down to the 100 mark to make it. I practice 20 yard accurate shots 7 yard quick shots, and I just doesn't seem like I'm improving very much. I do try to call my shots and I can most of the time, unless I'm using type 1 shooting at 7 yards then I just go too fast and I don't know how to slow down to "see more" and I don't hit the A zone or zero down in idpa... I guess what I'm looking for is a secret I know doesn't exsist...but any help would greatly be welcomed thanks again sno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted January 1, 2002 Share Posted January 1, 2002 snokid, The secret is simple - you must learn to "read" your gun as you do all the books you do - carefully and precisely. That is typically the skill beginners lack, especially if they are "speed oriented." Take the posts on fundamentals with you to the range. Read them over and over, and then read them some more. Nothing will increase your skill (speed or accuracy) like the ability to call, with precision, each shot at the instant it fires. SEE AND KNOW. Everything you need to know as you shoot is found right on your gun. Especially in the beginning, this is most important. Once you've mastered shot calling, then you can move into "seeing what you need to see." be be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eerw Posted January 1, 2002 Share Posted January 1, 2002 Benos.. that is good stuff...ever thought about writing a book Snokid..what he said... (Edited by eerw at 5:49 pm on Dec. 31, 2001) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Schwab Posted January 1, 2002 Share Posted January 1, 2002 snokid, To add to Brian's recommendations I would say dry fire more, I went from CDP-MM to CDP-MA in a little over a year, and at first I was dry firing like mad to master the basics (45 mins to 2 hours a night). And if you haven't done so already, make sure you get Brian's book, it'll change the way you look at shooting. Bill (Edited by Bill Schwab at 8:48 pm on Dec. 31, 2001) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted January 1, 2002 Share Posted January 1, 2002 snokid, First. Stop, relax. Take a deep breath. OK now. If your goal is to be a master in 3 months, what are you going to do next? There won't be anything. Relax and enjoy the trip to master. Win a few matches in your class. Take a few trophies home. I can guarantee there won't be many when you make master. You're only 36. You have a lot of time. I'm 56 and just made master in 3 divisions. Only CDP to go. Then listen to what Brian says. The trip to fast accurate shooting cannot be done overnight. The learning curve for new shooters is much quicker now thanks to people like Brian & Robbie. But it still takes study & practice. Now if your only goal is to make master here are a few tips. Break the match down into the individual strings. Shoot the classifier and score and tape after each string. Keep a record of time & points down for each string. Add up your score and see how close you come and how many seconds you need to take off to meet your goal. Then look at each string and see what you need to improve on. You may only need to practice some of the strings. IDPA leans toward accuracy being more inportant than speed but you still have to shoot fast. When you see what your strong points are then you will know what to work on. Most shooters have a problem with the longer shots in stage 3. They drop a lot of points here. You should drop almost NO points on stage 1 & 2 to optimize your score. You need to realize that if your only goal is to make master it may happen but that doesn't mean you will win matches. The classifier is a good test but there are also other skills needed to win matches. Good luck. Bill Nesbitt (Edited by BILL at 7:18 pm on Dec. 31, 2001) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snokid Posted January 1, 2002 Author Share Posted January 1, 2002 Thank you all for the helpful pointers... Brian----I'm trying hard to relax and see what my gun is doing and I can call most of the shots, It just seems like when I get close range targets (7 yards) I speed up and stop looking, no matter what I try as soon as the timer goes off I just can't stop myself from shooting front site only (i'm saying this poorly but what I mean is that I can't call each shot), but back me up to the 20 yard line and I can call I would guess in the area of 80 percent of my shots... Bill Schwab----thanks for the tip on dry firing, when you dry fire do you draw and shoot a point on the wall then reholster and start over or just dry fire a point on the wall without the draw? What I've been doing is setting my timer to a par of 1.20 and I draw and hit the spot on the wall between beeps. Is this wrong? Bill----thank you also. Because I shoot at a small club there is no one in my class so I will every event that I go to and get a ribbon even though I classified novice in april I should have been shooting marksman but even then I would of won most matches...ok that said I don't care so much about winning a match I just want to be as good as I can be. Setting my goal to be a master, gives me something to aim for (no pun intended). I don't shoot the whole classifier very often I just work on my weakest points. I may just shoot stage 1 7 or 8 times til I'm happy with my progress or I run out of ammo that night... thank you all for the help... sno (Edited by snokid at 2:43 am on Jan. 1, 2002) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eerw Posted January 1, 2002 Share Posted January 1, 2002 SnoKid.. That is a great goal..bt don't get frustrated if you don't get there in the time frame you set..It is amazing how much doesn't happen when you try to get there...Dryfiring is great for getting the feel of the gun, target swing, working on the draw, reloads and some moving to shooting position. I usually picked a point and work with a timer on par. When at the range, I would work on specific drills and shooting at dots. This worked the best to slow my tendency to shoot too fast and work at calling shots. Makig it competitive helped too. I got a friend and we would challenge each other...tightest group in fastest time...after an afternoon of that..loser bought lunch or dinner...good luck and have fun on the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Schwab Posted January 1, 2002 Share Posted January 1, 2002 snokid, Regarding dry firing I agree with eerw's comments, but until you have all the movements down perfectly I would focus on doing them slow and perfect each and every time. And make sure you're doing them right, for example, are you bowling the gun as you go to the target: http://www.brianenos.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard...17&topic=25 and are you going to the holstered gun properly. How about your reload: http://www.brianenos.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard...=24&start=0 This exercise from Travis may help too: http://www.brianenos.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard//topic.cgi?forum=5&topic=3&start=0 Make sure your dry fire sessions are relaxed and not rushed. I get up an hour early every weekday and dry fire in my basement while the wife & kids are still sleeping. Hope this helps. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eerw Posted January 1, 2002 Share Posted January 1, 2002 Dry firing is a great place to work out new techniques and build in the reps. Then you can go to the range and try it out on the timer and live fire. Man...it is snowing out..I want to go shooting..oh well couple of days...sunny again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snokid Posted January 2, 2002 Author Share Posted January 2, 2002 Hi guy's I just got back from the range again...I shot a 125.12, when I qualified in april it was 217.00...man I'm getting close I know that the last 27 secs will be very tuff. Thanks to all your recomendations I'm studying them all very carefully and using all of them except the getting up and hour early to dry fire I work third shift and drive truck so I like to get all the sleep I can but I will do it before I go to bed...I just need more time in a day to be able to reread Brians book for the 10th time (I have a couple of hours every night while I'm waiting for my loads) I wish I could take my gun to work then I could dry fire a couple of hours every night oh well... Bill thanks for the information I was bowling the gun a little and feel that I have corrected that problem most of the time. I will work on it til I get to the range in a couple of days and see if I have it down with out any necessary movements. my first shot times I think still need alot of improvement I know that dry firing will help this but my 1st shot splits run around 1.5 to 1.8... thanks to you all again sno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cpty1 Posted January 12, 2002 Share Posted January 12, 2002 If your goal is specifically to shoot a master score on the classifier, I would repeatedly practice the el prez type run and especially the last stage. I've seen several people be on pace for a master score until they get to that last stage. Most shooters lose some time on the el prez variation, but really start backing up on that last stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snokid Posted March 4, 2002 Author Share Posted March 4, 2002 Hi guys and shooter girl (sorry I forgot girl's shoot guns also) Well another update for you I just shot 115 and some change that is expert in ssp should of been 112 I missed a head shot (i knew i did before i even pulled the trigger) it is stage 3 that is keeping me from getting there the problem I have with that stage is multifacited mags changes and accuratacy I'm going to practice the heck out of this stage till I can get it down in the high 30's or low 40's that alone will do it if I have good runs in stage 1 and 2 Brian I really want to thank you for taking the time to help us novice's out, I wouldn't be where I am now with out the help I have recieved from you and the other great shooter's If Rob see's these he has also helped me alot I watch his tips on american shooter repeatedly. and try to pratice what he preaches Man is he quick. FYI my goal when I make it allows me to buy a new gun not till I make it no matter how long it takes. It is getting closer though going to start looking at which 1911 I will buy soon. thanks again for all the help Bob (Edited by snokid at 2:51 am on Mar. 4, 2002) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted March 4, 2002 Share Posted March 4, 2002 snokid: Have you followed the thread on grandbagging? Just thought I would ask. If a guy or gal practices the classifier over and over until they make master, does that really indicate their overall ability and level of performance? I don't want to rain on your parade, but lately I have been rethinking a lot of issues and classification is one of them. We will be shooting an IDPA classifier in a couple of months and I have decided to shoot it cold without practicing any of the stages. Should be interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Dunlop Posted March 4, 2002 Share Posted March 4, 2002 FWIW I've always struggled with labels of any kind. In IPSC all I strive for is first overall, and that is only satisfying when I feel I deserve it. Just my 2 cents worth, P.D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snokid Posted March 5, 2002 Author Share Posted March 5, 2002 Phil and Ron I'm not trying to brag really just trying to learn what I'm doing wrong as I want to be the best I can be, I know that just making master doesn't mean that I win matches, heck if I'm shooting against other masters I'm going to come in last if I just sneak into "master" I need to be better than just sneaking in. as far as just practicing the classifier (i don't us it to practice just judge myself) I pick a string the is giving problems the I develope a practice based on my shortcomings. for example my times for stage 1 string 1-3 used to run in the mid 3's with missed shots, well I knew this wasn't my best and I could improve so I practiced drawing 2 to the body and 1 to the head hundreds of times then my times were dropping and my points down were improving. I know that just making master isn't just shooting the classifier at that level it is being able to adopt to that level of shooting. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Dunlop Posted March 5, 2002 Share Posted March 5, 2002 Bob, I wasn't picking on you,, just giving my take on things. I'm not trying to discourage you, just let you know that the grading thing is less relevant to some of us than real match results. Its great to see and communicate with others 'trying for the summit' (great signature J1B) good luck, P.D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Perez Posted March 8, 2002 Share Posted March 8, 2002 You might find the tips here helpful [ besides the other good stuff on this board ]. http://www.sportshooter.com/idpa/idpa_improving_results.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted March 9, 2002 Share Posted March 9, 2002 and the tips here: http://www.mattburkett.com/catindx1.html As well as Matt and Brian's books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cpty1 Posted March 11, 2002 Share Posted March 11, 2002 Congrats on the 125 run. You're getting there. Was just curious what your times were at the different shooting distances? My experience with the IDPA classifier is somewhat limited, but from what I've seen, most everyone can shoot master pace scores everywhere except maybe the el prez position and most certainly the last position around the barricade, reload, movement to, and shooting around the barrel. That's where I see a big difference in time among shooters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Schwab Posted March 11, 2002 Share Posted March 11, 2002 Yeah, that third stage of the classifier kills everyone, if you can get that stage down you'll be golden. Everyone shoots it too fast, and their accuracy goes to hell. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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