Lock on Airline Gun Case

[davidwiz]

I'm traveling to the SMM3G next month via air. All of my bullet launching mechanisims are going in a long Starlight case. The case does not have a lock on it, but rather 2 places to put a pad lock. Is it ok to use my lock on the case? Or, do I need to use a wimpy TSA-approved lock so that they can open it if they need to?

From reading some of the airlines regs (like Southwest) regarding traveling w/ bullet launchers, it seems to say that I can use my own lock on the gun case and that once it has been declared at the check-in counter, no one is going to have a need to open it again.

-David

[cking]

That will apply so long as you don't transfer to some other airline at a hub somewhere. Then you may find your locks cut off and not replaced at all. Make sure the case has other latches on it. Better off buying there locks. Although one fella I know has flex cable inside the case that he feeds through the actions and secured to the case and locks with his own locks. Then they can open and inspect but harder to send an empty case on its way. HE also has an annoying beeper made from one of those hotel door alarm things. So when they open the case the beeper is yapping the whole time. He has couple of cases made up this way.

[blackdragon]

I always use the TSA losks, I have had several Pellie locks broken.

Ivan

[IPSCDRL]

Dave, I took my piece to Dallas with me last month and was able to lock the bag that the pistol case was in. I checked in and declared the unloaded firearm (never refer to it as anything else) The TSA folks took the pistol case and examined it then locked the case. I then asked them to use the padlock on the suitcase and hand me the key when they were done. No problem. Be courteous and respectful to them and they will generally act the same to you.

[1911user]

If TSA is working in the checked baggage area with the ticket agents, you can/will be present when TSA inspects the bags with firearms. If it has a gun, they will open it. If you are there to provide the key, they will use it and return it to you. If you can see them doing the x-ray or whatever checks, hang around until your bags are through. In that case, I don't believe you need TSA-approved locks. This was my experience with recent travel with a handgun and ammo.

If they are checking the checked baggage somewhere away from the ticket counter(s), that is when TSA locks would be useful. They will cut locks to open luggage unless you are available to give them the key.

I flew Southwest Airlines for 3 trips between Oklahoma City (OKC) and Los Angeles (LAX) in the past 2 months and didn't have a problem and didn't have any locks cut, but I was there for all screening. I bought a pair of cheap locks that were keyed the same. I used one lock on the hard-sided pistol case and one on the suitcase itself. Only needing 1 key made it easier.

Let me know if you have further questions.

My last piece of travel advice is don't buy a one-way airline ticket. That is the fast road to becoming a TSA "selectee" which means they will go through everything you pack (checked or not) thoroughly and do as much of a frisk as they can get away without obvious groping. Ladies, this is the one where they are looking for explosives in undergarments and it's damned intrusive in my opinion. If you are traveling one-way, my advice is to buy a round trip ticket and then get a refund on the unused return flight.

EDIT: Another good idea is to print pages from the airlines and TSA websites that describe their firearm policies. That way if you run into someone uninformed in the process, you can show them the rules and/or ask for a supervisor's assistance.

[BigDave]

Wrong answer.

The only person who is supposed to have a key/combination to the lock on a firearm case is the owner. Do not use TSA locks as they can be opened by anyone with a TSA key. Read the regs. I've gone so far as to tape a copy of the TSA/FAA regs regarding this to the outside of the pistol case. I've also inlcuded, in clear print, my name and multiple contact numbers. The "tag" on my case also states that I have checked into the airport early and I am available for the inspection of my case.

Arrive early enough that you will be available for any required inspection of your baggage and case.

[Rob Boudrie]

Another touch - carry two keys and a note to the TSA in your wallet which reads "This is a spare key, please lock it in the case after inspection and re-lock the case". If you are paged to hand over a key to be taken to an unseen area (the key, not you), you can had over one key and the note and not wait around for it to be returned.

Fortunately, the person who brought the key back to me at the Phoenix airport was kind enough to grant my request to be escorted to the front of the security line he had paged me out of.

[chuckbradley]

It is also against regs to mark the outside of the bag indicating there is a firearm inside. The bag with the firearm must be locked. All bags must be unlocked. Those are the regs.

Last time I flew with a gun on the way out they checked my bag , I locked it. The agent told me to pay attention to the PA system since they may page me to come unlock my bag. They didnt. On the way back home in L.A. the TSA guys were right ther next to the counter and once the agent checked my bag she had me carry it over to TSA and get them to check it before I locked it and sent it on its way.

[shred]

I've been paged back to the counter a few times. While I don't have a TSA lock, I do the cable-lock-through-the-guns routine anyway.. they can bust into the case and look if they want, but the case and guns are still locked to the bag.

[Tman33_99]

This was in my email storage and thought it would help

*TSA ADVISORY TO LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS AND OTHER PASSENGERS WHO MAY HAVE A NEED TO TRANSPORT FIREARMS, FIREARMS PARTS AND AMMUNITION ON BOARD COMMERCIAL AIRCRAFT.

I. PASSENGERS ARE PROHIBITED FROM CARRYING FIREARMS, FIREARM PARTS AND AMMUNITION

FEDERAL REGULATIONS ADMINISTERED BY THE TRANSPORTATION SECURITY

ADMINISTRATION (TSA) PROHIBIT THE CARRIAGE OF FIREARMS AND GUNS, AS WELL AS PARTS OF FIREARMS AND GUNS (SUCH AS MAGAZINES OR CLIPS, BOLTS, FIRING PINS, AND OTHER COMPONENTS), IN THE TRAVELERS POSSESSION OR IN CARRY-ON LUGGAGE ON COMMERCIAL AIRCRAFT.

AMMUNITION ALSO IS NOT ALLOWED AS A CARRY-ON ITEM. CARRYING EVEN A SINGLE ROUND OF AMMUNITION THROUGH AIRPORT SECURITY CHECKPOINTS IS A VIOLATION OF REGULATIONS.

THERE ARE CERTAIN LIMITED EXCEPTIONS FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS (LEOS) WHO ARE AUTHORIZED TO FLY ARMED BY MEETING THE REQUIREMENTS OF 49 CFR 1544.219.

TSA REGULATIONS ARE STRICTLY ENFORCED. VIOLATIONS CAN RESULT IN CRIMINAL PROSECUTION AND IMPOSITION OF CIVIL PENALTIES OF UP TO $10,000 PER VIOLATION. IN THE CASE OF VIOLATIONS BY GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES, TSA MAY ALSO FORWARD THE MATTER TO THE EMPLOYEES AGENCY. IN THE CASE OF VIOLATIONS BY MILITARY PERSONNEL RELATED TO THE PERFORMANCE OF MILITARY DUTIES, TSA WILL FORWARD AN ENFORCEMENT INVESTIGATIVE REPORT TO THE SERVICE MEMBERS COMMAND FOR APPROPRIATE ACTION.

II. CHECKED-BAGGAGE REQUIREMENTS FOR TRANSPORTING FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION

ALL PERSONS CARRYING FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION IN CHECKED BAGGAGE, INCLUDING LEOS, MUST COMPLY WITH THE PROVISIONS OF 49 CFR 1540.111. FOLLOWING IS A SUMMARY OF KEY REQUIREMENTS OF THIS SECTION AND OTHER REGULATORY PROVISIONS.

ALL FIREARMS MUST BE DECLARED TO THE AIR CARRIER DURING THE TICKET COUNTER CHECK-IN PROCESS. TRAVELERS WITH FIREARMS SHOULD CHECK-IN AT THE TICKET COUNTER AND NOT USE ELECTRONIC CHECK-IN (E.G., KIOSKS OR THE INTERNET). ELECTRONIC CHECK-IN WILL NOT PROVIDE ADEQUATE COMPLIANCE WITH THE REQUIREMENT TO DECLARE FIREARMS TO THE AIR CARRIER AND WILL EXPOSE THE TRAVELER TO GREATER POTENTIAL FOR VIOLATION AND RESULTING CIVIL OR CRIMINAL ENFORCEMENT ACTION.

ALL DECLARED FIREARMS MUST BE UNLOADED AND TRANSPORTED IN A LOCKED HARD-SIDED CONTAINER. WHILE SOME FIREARM PARTS ARE NOT WITHIN THE BROAD DEFINITION OF THE TERM FIREARM, TRAVELERS ARE ADVISED TO PLACE ALL FIREARM PARTS IN A LOCKED HARD-SIDED CONTAINER TO AVOID VIOLATIONS.

ACCESS TO THE DECLARED FIREARM MUST BE RESTRICTED, WITH ONLY THE PASSENGER POSSESSING THE CONTAINER COMBINATION OR KEY TO THE LOCK. DURING THE SCREENING PROCESS, TSA MAY NOTIFY THE PASSENGER THAT THE HARD-SIDED CONTAINER MUST BE OPENED FOR INSPECTION. IN THIS EVENT, IT IS PREFERRED THAT THE PASSENGER TURN OVER THE KEY OR COMBINATION TO THE SCREENER. IF THE COMBINATION IS SENSITIVE, THE PASSENGER MAY UNLOCK THE LOCK, BUT TSA PERSONNEL MUST OPEN THE CONTAINER.

ANY AMMUNITION TRANSPORTED MUST BE PLACED IN CHECKED BAGGAGE AND SECURELY PACKED IN FIBER (SUCH AS CARDBOARD), WOOD OR METAL BOXES OR OTHER PACKAGING SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED TO CARRY SMALL AMOUNTS OF AMMUNITION. FIREARM MAGAZINES/CLIPS DO NOT SATISFY THE PACKAGING REQUIREMENT UNLESS THEY PROVIDE A COMPLETE AND SECURE ENCLOSURE OF THE AMMUNITION (E.G., BY SECURELY COVERING THE EXPOSED PORTIONS OF THE MAGAZINE OR BY SECURELY PLACING THE MAGAZINE IN A POUCH, HOLDER, HOLSTER OR LANYARD).

THE AMMUNITION MAY ALSO BE LOCATED IN THE SAME HARD-SIDED CASE AS THE FIREARM AS LONG AS IT IS PROPERLY PACKED AS DESCRIBED ABOVE.

IT IS ALSO RECOMMENDED THAT THE AMMUNITION PACKAGE IN CHECKED BAGGAGE BE STABILIZED, EITHER BY TAPING IT TO THE INTERIOR WALL OF THE BAG, OR BY USE OF PACKING MATERIAL OR OTHER MEANS TO ENSURE THE AMMUNITION PACKAGE DOES NOT MOVE ABOUT THE INTERIOR OF THE BAG DURING TRANSPORTATION.

BLACK POWDER, INCLUDING PYRODEX, AND PERCUSSION CAPS USED WITH BLACK-POWDER TYPE FIREARMS ARE NOT PERMITTED ON BOARD AIRCRAFT, EITHER AS ACCESSIBLE PROPERTY OR IN CHECKED BAGGAGE.

AIR CARRIERS MAY HAVE THEIR OWN ADDITIONAL REQUIREMENTS ON THE CARRIAGE OF FIREARMS AND THE AMOUNT OF AMMUNITION AN INDIVIDUAL MAY PLACE IN CHECKED BAGGAGE. THEREFORE, TRAVELERS SHOULD ALSO CONTACT THE AIR CARRIER REGARDING ITS FIREARM AND AMMUNITION CARRIAGE POLICIES.

ADDITIONAL INFORMATION ABOUT THE CARRIAGE OF FIREARMS, FIREARM PARTS AND AMMUNITION, AS WELL AS OTHER AIR TRAVEL TIPS, CAN BE FOUND AT WWW.TSA.GOV OR BY CONTACTING THE TSA CONTACT CENTER TOLL- FREE AT 1-866-289-9673 OR BY EMAIL AT TSA-CONTACTCENTER@DHS.GOV

[chuckbradley]

When Leaving LA last year a delta agent motioned us over to a kiosk. I told her I couldnt check in there since I had a firearm. She said sure you can and went over and got me the red tag, I signed it and put it in the bag. TSA was right there so I just carried the bag over to them. No problem.

One thing I did find out that agents from town to town, airline to airline just dont know how to handle checking a firearm. The dont know the laws or their own airlines policies. One time leaving San Francisco the Delta agent demanded I get the 3 guns out and show her they were not loaded. At that time it was Delta's policy to just have you sign the tag since their agents were not educated enough on firearms to tell anyway. My buddy also flying delta had no problem. I happened to know the Delta policy and training manual on the subject since a customer of mine was a delta manager and he emailed me them. I told the agent that what she was asking me to do was against Delta's policy, she got the supervisor who wanted me to show her the guns as well. I stood firm and told her it was against Delta's policy. At this point she was pretty angry with me. Went ot the back and in a few minutes came out and said put the tag in the bag but I want you to understand we can search your bags anytime we wish. She didnt search them and I didnt have to show the guns.

Why did I do it? maybe if I brought enough attention to it then the airline may better educate their agents. At least I am sure it was made known in San Francisco. After that i quit hassling them. If they wanted to see the gun i showed it. Had one agent stick her finger up magwell to make sure there was no mag. Slide was closed. I gave her a lesson on how to make sure the gun was clear by checking the chamber also.

This was all before 911 so policies could have, probably have, changed now.

[Rob Boudrie]

THE AMMUNITION MAY ALSO BE LOCATED IN THE SAME HARD-SIDED CASE AS THE FIREARM AS LONG AS IT IS PROPERLY PACKED AS DESCRIBED ABOVE.

TSA agents do not always know this portion of the regulation. The agent in Bend had to get a second agent t tell her it was OK, and a TSA agent in Boston insisted I move the ammo boxes to a different piece of baggage. I pack them separately now, since the conbination of a TSA agent who does not understand this regulation and a behind the scenes check could result in a problem.

[shred]

THE AMMUNITION MAY ALSO BE LOCATED IN THE SAME HARD-SIDED CASE AS THE FIREARM AS LONG AS IT IS PROPERLY PACKED AS DESCRIBED ABOVE.

TSA agents do not always know this portion of the regulation. The agent in Bend had to get a second agent t tell her it was OK, and a TSA agent in Boston insisted I move the ammo boxes to a different piece of baggage. I pack them separately now, since the conbination of a TSA agent who does not understand this regulation and a behind the scenes check could result in a problem.

I typically try and split ammo around between bags. If it's all in the gun bag that one hits the 50 lb limit way too soon. I also always try and hang around the TSA area or check-in counter until I'm sure the guns have gone through the scanner as well.

The real fun comes when they demand you show them a muzzleloader is 'unloaded'.