XL650 for Precision rifle - First Impressions

[bigjim21]

After doing an enormous amount of snooping and skulking about online for information on the XL650 and Dillon in general for long range hunting / precision rifle loading - I got the press for Christmas and ordered all the various accessories last week.

I was particularly interested in runout, OAL variation and accuracy of the powder measure with extruded powders. I ran my first box of shells through the press today - 7mm Weatherby Mag using IMR 4831 powder and barnes 140gr TTSX bullets.

I am using standard toolheads, a standard RCBS two-die set, and the Dillon Belted Magnum powder measure system for this particular caliber.

After some general fiddling and flailing trying to get it all set up, I threw my first charges as follows (looking for 73.0 grains of IMR 4831) 73.0, 72.7, 73.0, 73.2, 73.1, 73.3, 73.3, 73.2, 73.4, 72.9, 73.2, 72.8, 72.7. I was thrilled with that level of accuracy from an off-the-shelf measure with extruded powder and from there I just started cranking.

I measured runout on the loaded rounds using the Hornady LNL dial indicator and found runout generally negligible in the +- .002 range, but most of the loaded ammo was dead on with less than .001" runout. For a $35 2-die RCBS set and nothing else fancy for this particular caliber - I was impressed.

I noticed a fair amount of OAL variation in the loaded rounds (something along the lines of .0050"+-) and was initially a little concerned, but then I took a handful of bullets out of the box and measured them. the variation in OAL of the loaded rounds seemed to be consistent with observed variation in bullet length from the factory. I will check it again using a micrometer seating die for my next batch, but I am extremely satisfied to say the least.

As far as setup goes I got the inline fabrication ultramount, ergo handle, shellplate bearing kit with low mass detent ball, and press lighting kit. I ordered the casefeeder (which works incredibly well) and polished the internals of the powder measures to a high shine. I considered the locking toolheads, but decided against them unless OAL/runout turns out to be an issue. So far it looks to me like its not going to be a problem.

[MikeRush]

When you figure David Tubb and John Whidden both load on Dillons, it sure makes a lot of sense! Glad it is working great for you- I would expect that it would. 2 options to consider are the Whidden toolheads- I believe you are referencing that as the "locking" toolheads- I have found they do indeed help with OAL variation, although what you are really are wanting to measure is the ogive.

Also, floating the dies can help with runout- Whidden makes a set to float the dies with Forster rings- they are fantastic! If you are more DIY, the Tubb's book outlines the process of floating the dies with a roll pin.

[Graham Smith]

The only thing you have to watch when loading for precision on a progressive press is that you can get a slightly different output when checking things one station at a time vs running all stations full.

Probably the most valuable time you can spend is at the range testing loads to find your optimum charge. If you can find a node where small differences charge and OAL result in tiny variations in velocity and impact, then you will have built enough latitude into your load. If you can't do that, then those little variations will kill your precision.

[bigjim21]

I ran 20 300 win mag 180gr loads through it last night and measured runout using standard toolheads and a redding competition bullet seater die. All measured under .002" runout and most were right at or under .001". Using h4350 I got plus minus 3/10gr variation.

[bigjim21]

I ran 20 300 win mag 180gr loads through it last night and measured runout using standard toolheads and a redding competition bullet seater die. All measured under .002" runout and most were right at or under .001". Using h4350 I got plus minus 3/10gr variation.

[Steve RA]

I would think that a difference in the OAL of the bullets would result in the protrusion of the bullet into the case varying, not a variance in the OAL of the finished round ???? Unless there is a variance from where the seating die contacts the bullet and the tip of the bullet ???

[1time]

You have to measure oal to the ogive to get an accurate measurement. I would be happy with the runout and I'm guessing the oal will be good. I would not be good with a .6 g powder variation. It's not bad for extruded but will still do you no favors in accuracy.

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[bigjim21]

I measure oal to the ogive with a bullet comparator. Variations in oal were mostly due to the way I had the seating die set up. I had it run all the way down to the shell plate firmly. I backed it off to just kiss the shellplate and that took out most of the variance. It varied slightly until each station was full too. I'm going to lock the toolhead down with a uniquetek kit and see what that does to oal. After that I'll float the dies with an o ring and see if that takes runout to zero. I'm fine with .002" though.

[dauntedfuture]

I have loaded all kinds of 1000yd ammo on a 550 and continue to do. For all practical purposes the 550 and 650 are "the same" when it comes to the ability to load precision ammo. I will tell you that I size on the first pass through, then clean and trim. On the second pass, I seat primers and stop the case when it is "up" to drop in a weighed powder charge. I use the funnel powder die thing. I am using stick powder, RL15 and varget. If I was using a ball powder I would not weigh the charges. I then seat the bullet after that. What you are going to see in regards to variations in runout can be attributed mostly to the cases and case preparation, NOT the press or the dies.

I prefer to work backwards, try what is easy, measure the ammo for runout, and shoot a group to test accuracy, SD and ES. If things look good, I stop there and go load. If things are not good regarding runout, and effects on target are not what I want, ill work to solve that problem looking at brass quality, necks, bushings etc. Provided I can get a 10 shot group 2" at 200 yds with 25 fps ES, ill stop messing around as this is good enough ammo for NRA highpwower and i'd bet dollar to doughnuts 90% of people that claim their rifle will shoot 1/2 MOA or better all day long would not measure up to that standard. For three gun ammo i'm a little less picky as i'm shooting with a 6x scope.

[bigjim21]

I have an RCBS chargemaster and I also bought the AT500 dies for my toolheads so i can go that way OR use the measure. I'm actually pretty impressed with the dillon "belted magnum" measure. I'm generally .03grn +- with heavy stick powder like 4350 or RL22 and I strongly suspect in a belted magnum that's burning +- 2 whole grains outside the barrel anyway - it may not show up on paper. I'm going to find out.

Either way I'm going to try and transition as much of my rifle stuff to ball powders as I can so I can skip the chargemaster step. your electronic scale is only accurate to about a grain anyway, from what i understand so if i can get into that range with the dillon then I'm golden.

I am handling brass prep by running cases through a universal decapping die in a dedicated toolhead, THEN trimming at that point (once) with an EZ-Trim-It in a drill press, ultrasonic cleaning, then tumbling. I have each toolhead set up with an RCBS X-die at the resizing station, so I dont have to trim after the initial trim. It works startlingly well. I'm using home made case lube (4oz liquid lanolin oil + 20oz of ISO-HEET).

[RDA]

I have an RCBS chargemaster and I also bought the AT500 dies for my toolheads so i can go that way OR use the measure. I'm actually pretty impressed with the dillon "belted magnum" measure. I'm generally .03grn +- with heavy stick powder like 4350 or RL22 and I strongly suspect in a belted magnum that's burning +- 2 whole grains outside the barrel anyway - it may not show up on paper. I'm going to find out.

Either way I'm going to try and transition as much of my rifle stuff to ball powders as I can so I can skip the chargemaster step. your electronic scale is only accurate to about a grain anyway, from what i understand so if i can get into that range with the dillon then I'm golden.

Hopefully your electronic scale is more accurate than +- 1.0 grain (more like +- 0.1 grain).

[RiggerJJ]

Bigjim,

Rcbs makes a case activated linkage for their powder drop, that fits on both my 650 and 1050. I converted all of my pistol and rifle loading heads over to accept the Rcbs powder measure, and sold all of my Dillon powder measures. I now don't have to watch stick powders bridge or drop inconsistemtly. I get +or- .1 without batting an eye with large drops like for 308 with Varget or 4064. To me it was worth the trouble to be able to use the powder I want to use instead of being restricted by the sliding powder bar...

Just an fyi

jj

Edited January 9, 2015 by RiggerJJ

[bigjim21]

I have an rcbs measure. I'll try it. Also I meant .1grn accuracy on the charge master btw.

[rtp]

Bigjim,

Rcbs makes a case activated linkage for their powder drop, that fits on both my 650 and 1050. I converted all of my pistol and rifle loading heads over to accept the Rcbs powder measure, and sold all of my Dillon powder measures. I now don't have to watch stick powders bridge or drop inconsistemtly. I get +or- .1 without batting an eye with large drops like for 308 with Varget or 4064. To me it was worth the trouble to be able to use the powder I want to use instead of being restricted by the sliding powder bar...

Just an fyi

jj

The Hornady PM and the RCBS (Uniflow) are more or less clones of each other - I believe Hornady licensed something from RCBS, then licensed the case linkage back to RCBS for their use.

Might be useful for anyone else later reading along...the 'bigger'/main difference AFAIK is the Hornady has a larger powder tube, so you can load more before refilling.

Are you guys using a powder baffle when using a typical PM w/extruded powders?

Edited January 11, 2015 by rtp

[RiggerJJ]

Bigjim,

Rcbs makes a case activated linkage for their powder drop, that fits on both my 650 and 1050. I converted all of my pistol and rifle loading heads over to accept the Rcbs powder measure, and sold all of my Dillon powder measures. I now don't have to watch stick powders bridge or drop inconsistemtly. I get +or- .1 without batting an eye with large drops like for 308 with Varget or 4064. To me it was worth the trouble to be able to use the powder I want to use instead of being restricted by the sliding powder bar...

Just an fyi

jj

The Hornady PM and the RCBS (Uniflow) are more or less clones of each other...

Are you guys using a powder baffle when using a typical PM w/extruded powders?

Oh yea, definitely.

[rtp]

Bigjim,

Rcbs makes a case activated linkage for their powder drop, that fits on both my 650 and 1050. I converted all of my pistol and rifle loading heads over to accept the Rcbs powder measure, and sold all of my Dillon powder measures. I now don't have to watch stick powders bridge or drop inconsistemtly. I get +or- .1 without batting an eye with large drops like for 308 with Varget or 4064. To me it was worth the trouble to be able to use the powder I want to use instead of being restricted by the sliding powder bar...

Just an fyi

jj

The Hornady PM and the RCBS (Uniflow) are more or less clones of each other...

Are you guys using a powder baffle when using a typical PM w/extruded powders?

Oh yea, definitely.

Thanks - I seem to have it in my head reading about not using the baffle for extruded powders for some reason.

As I've to date mainly been loading ball/spherical powders, the baffle is always in, but wanted a sanity check as I've been looking at some different, mainly extruded, powders for rifle lately..