Rifle recoil tracks to the right.

[Therealkoop]

Being a right handed shooter my rifles always want to go up and to the right.

Most comps remove the upward motion, but my rifle then tracks to the right like its on a rail. Aside from doing something like tuning a rolling thunder comp to negate this, how can you adjust technique to prevent this?

[Moltke]

Apply more torque on the gun while shooting

But let me ask you, for the targets your shooting at the speed youre shooting is the drift to the right pushing you off target? If not then drive and shoot faster.

[AFH]

Your rifle is going to recoil against the forces applied to it, including your support hand. Varying your grip will vary the direction of recoil. Perhaps the easiest and most effective method to eliminate most, if not all, of the tracking is to rotate your comp to a 1 or 2 o'clock position and repeat your testing. Adjust the clocking of the comp until you are happy with the results. Of course, you will then have folks informing you that your comp is on a little crooked!!!

Andy

[TonytheTiger]

Out of curiousity, your not a magwell grip shooter are you? I've seen some pretty wild things happen in rapid fire with that technique. Every time I say something I get the same response, "that's how we shoot our m4's in basic man! It's the only way!"

Edited November 15, 2014 by TonytheTiger

[MarkCO]

Your rifle is going to recoil against the forces applied to it, including your support hand. Varying your grip will vary the direction of recoil. Perhaps the easiest and most effective method to eliminate most, if not all, of the tracking is to rotate your comp to a 1 or 2 o'clock position and repeat your testing. Adjust the clocking of the comp until you are happy with the results. Of course, you will then have folks informing you that your comp is on a little crooked!!!

Andy

There you go.

[Therealkoop]

Out of curiousity, your not a magwell grip shooter are you? I've seen some pretty wild things happen in rapid fire with that technique. Every time I say something I get the same response, "that's how we shoot our m4's in basic man! It's the only way!"

Nah I hold my rifle pretty far out. Im not straight out, ive got a little bend in the elbow.

Currently I use a rolling thunder comp and I drilled the thing to compensate for it. My main problem is that I thought I might be masking bad technique with this (or with clocking).

[TonytheTiger]

Awhile ago I ran into the same thing you did. Ended up clocking my comp to about 2 o'clock. I agree with AFH's summary of how it works, the theory was reinforced when I shot left handed and the rifle tracked to the left.

[co-exprs]

I don't clock my comps and my rifles don't torque. The right side hop is the rifle rotating around the mass it is pushing against. You can easily correct this with how and where you mount the rifle and how you apply your muscle mass. The benefit to learning how to manage recoil without clocking the comp is that what you learn will apply directly to your shotgun.

[mpom]

Would like to learn your technique, co-exprs. Can you please give specifics?

Was thinking of clocking the brake, but then I would accentuate the issue shooting off side.

Thanks, Mark.

[co-exprs]

I briefly discuss recoil manangement in this youtube vid. In the vid I'm running a 308 and the same applies to an AR15.

[Moltke]

And how are you holding the rifle with your support hand?

[co-exprs]

Halfway down the hand guard, elbows bent, arm muscles tight, index finger pointed towards the target. The video points out an opportunity in recoil management, which most people miss.

[rboyes]

Halfway down the hand guard, elbows bent, arm muscles tight, index finger pointed towards the target. The video points out an opportunity in recoil management, which most people miss.

I hold the same. I'm 5'8" 140lbs and my 308 doesn't move much. Also key is the lower body, maintaining aggressive stance weight slightly forward.

[co-exprs]

Also excellent advice Rich. You run your 308 like a boss!

[mpom]

Thanks, Mr Payne. Will have to try rolling shoulder forward and bringing in stock towards centerline. Helping with faster SG shooting is a major benefit as well.

[co-exprs]

Don't forget to tighten up your chest muscle behind the stock. You might need to play with the LOP to make it work. I used to mount the rifle and shotgun more traditional and preferred longer LOP. Now I run my stocks shorter.

[TonytheTiger]

Hey co-exprs (if that's even your real name...) what is the brake called your running in your video?

[kurtm]

Mike Payne......just saying.

[co-exprs]

That is the Hot Gates 762. They are available by PM'ing me.

[rboyes]

I also use Mike's brake on my 308. I have a second 308 that uses a Titan. Both are extremely effective at mitigating recoil and keeping sights on target. The Hot Gates 762 is shorter, lighter, and slightly less blastly (though I don't notice either when I'm the shooter, only RO'ing).

Here's a few videos with my Hot Gates equipped JP PSC12 308:

www.youtube.com/embed/Crq5-_XUn1g?list=UUzPw9bqPW967u45eU_F7bZQ

www.youtube.com/embed/4HUWbnWVC84?list=UUzPw9bqPW967u45eU_F7bZQ

Edited November 20, 2014 by rboyes

[TonytheTiger]

That's right, you had a name my brake thread on here awhile ago, I'm gonna have to go read that again it was pretty funny. It certainly appears to be an effective unit, although I imagine the operator has his technique tuned well enough he could make any brake look good. Maybe I'll go buy a 308 just to have a home for this brake...

[rboyes]

That's right, you had a name my brake thread on here awhile ago, I'm gonna have to go read that again it was pretty funny. It certainly appears to be an effective unit, although I imagine the operator has his technique tuned well enough he could make any brake look good. Maybe I'll go buy a 308 just to have a home for this brake...

There is more difference between various 308 brakes than there is between 223 brakes. For example, my JP 308 came with their Cooley comp. It works well enough, but the difference is quite noticeable between it and something like a Hot Gates or Titan.

[co-exprs]

That's right, you had a name my brake thread on here awhile ago, I'm gonna have to go read that again it was pretty funny. It certainly appears to be an effective unit, although I imagine the operator has his technique tuned well enough he could make any brake look good. Maybe I'll go buy a 308 just to have a home for this brake...

There is more difference between various 308 brakes than there is between 223 brakes. For example, my JP 308 came with their Cooley comp. It works well enough, but the difference is quite noticeable between it and something like a Hot Gates or Titan.

You are correct. There is a lot to be gained in the technique of managing recoil. I wasn't attempting to pimp my brake, only trying to illustrate what can be gained through understanding and application of superior recoil management techniques. In the case of 308, no brake will get you to 100% neutrality of muzzle manors. It requires a balance of an excellent brake, rifle tuning, personal technique and (to a lesser extent) load development. In the case of 223, most people look to the brake and some light rifle tuning to get them the muzzle manors they want. Since they can get there with 223 fairly easily, most never realize how much more there is to gain through good technique. Many (most) people work really hard to learn how to manage pistol recoil, work really hard to make their rifle manage recoil by itself and then suck it up for the shotgun recoil.

[TonytheTiger]

While I'm not the OP and my muzzle doesn't track to 3 o'clock this thread has been very beneficial for me. Until 2 days ago I was reasonably happy with my technique and never had trouble keeping fast doubles or triples on close paper. I figured all was well with the world and from here I would just buy low mass parts as my budget allowed to make my rifle do exactly what I wanted it to do. Then I saw you running a 308 the way most people would like to run a 223 and I knew that my technique would not allow me to do that with anything heavier than my 223, so it was time to re evaluate. After a lot of thinking and a good hour of dry fire drills in my basement to get comfortable with my revised shooting style, I ran out to my backyard range at 9pm in 10 degree temps with my son holding a flashlight for me to test it out with some doubles on close paper. While my doubles are at the same speed, it was immediately noticeable how much tighter the group was, I'm excited to see how much this pays off for targets a little further away. I love this forum, I can learn from people who have already been there and done that rather than spending years and lots of ammo money thinking I was already doing it "good enough".

[MarkCO]

Excellent! That is the kind of thing these forums are supposed to be used for.