Rifle recoil tracks to the right.

[co-exprs]

While I'm not the OP and my muzzle doesn't track to 3 o'clock this thread has been very beneficial for me. Until 2 days ago I was reasonably happy with my technique and never had trouble keeping fast doubles or triples on close paper. I figured all was well with the world and from here I would just buy low mass parts as my budget allowed to make my rifle do exactly what I wanted it to do. Then I saw you running a 308 the way most people would like to run a 223 and I knew that my technique would not allow me to do that with anything heavier than my 223, so it was time to re evaluate. After a lot of thinking and a good hour of dry fire drills in my basement to get comfortable with my revised shooting style, I ran out to my backyard range at 9pm in 10 degree temps with my son holding a flashlight for me to test it out with some doubles on close paper. While my doubles are at the same speed, it was immediately noticeable how much tighter the group was, I'm excited to see how much this pays off for targets a little further away. I love this forum, I can learn from people who have already been there and done that rather than spending years and lots of ammo money thinking I was already doing it "good enough".

[kurtm]

I hope you let your son shoot some as well for holding the flashlight!

[TonytheTiger]

Normally he would've got some trigger time, but considering he couldn't feel anything between his face and his toes he was decidedly uninterested in shooting that night. Next time though.

[KelsonAK]

Soft flatlanders.... I think we got to freezing today... no snow yet.

[GreenDragon64]

So what is the technique? Pull the rifle in tight and have the rear stock be placed more on the pec major instead of the deltoid?

[co-exprs]

Yep. Role your shoulder forward moving the stock more onto your chest. I've sometimes heard this referred to the meat pocket (although I always associated that with a microwavable hot sandwich). Tighten up your chest muscle behind the stock and tighten up your arm muscles, just like you are shooting a pistol. You only need to pull the rifle into your chest hard enough to keep it from moving around in the pocket. Bend your knees a little and keep your weight on the balls of your feet and let em fly. Basically, you are moving the rifle stock from your shoulder joint, which is thinly muscled and very flexible, to your pectoral muscle, where you have some solid body mass to back it up. The rifle will move around less and you will be more locked into your cheek weld which will make it even easier to call your shots. 223 moves so little anyways, the additional recoil management will pretty much lock your sights on the target like a tractor beam. You should be able to throw aggressive pairs out to 40yds no problem. 308 has so much more force and reciprocating mass to deal with that even at my very best, the sights still dance around a bit. I'll throw aggressive pairs out to 25yds, but after that I have to start slowing it down to ensure the second hit. Even if the sights are on target, the additional sight movement on the 308 makes it more difficult to see the sights on target. One of the cool parts of this technique is that most shotguns will cycle better and with lighter loads, if you give the gun something solid to push against. Not only will the muzzle climb less, but my experience is that I can generally run a quarter dram less on the shells. The down side is that you may need to refit your shotgun stock. I currently run a 13.25" LOP on my SuperNova.

[Sterling White]

^^^ this

The only thing I would add is the "fit". Stock length and type can add to comfort and ease of shooting.

[TonytheTiger]

Last night I was running my dry fire and loading drills with my 1301 and I'm thinking the recoil control benefits might be even more noticeable with that (or a 308 like you said) and the 13" LOP seems perfect for this technique. I'm really excited to try it out on my plate rack this weekend if I can find time. I'm pretty pumped about my recent enlightenment, I think I was at a plateau till just now.

[Therealkoop]

I spent some time screwing around. It seems like my normal stance (extremely similar to Co-Exprs, but closer in) works pretty well. I typically shoot NTCH, and found that if I extend the stock out to the middle of the adjustment and take my nose off the gun the recoil is a little more predictable and doesn't kick right as hard. Probably because my right arm is now actually doing some work.

At the moment my pairs are better with no clocking/tuning for left/right movement. I can get some pretty close impacts now at 50 yards on my doubles. Before it was hit/miss and unpredictable.

[GreenDragon64]

Yep. Role your shoulder forward moving the stock more onto your chest. I've sometimes heard this referred to the meat pocket (although I always associated that with a microwavable hot sandwich). Tighten up your chest muscle behind the stock and tighten up your arm muscles, just like you are shooting a pistol. You only need to pull the rifle into your chest hard enough to keep it from moving around in the pocket. Bend your knees a little and keep your weight on the balls of your feet and let em fly. Basically, you are moving the rifle stock from your shoulder joint, which is thinly muscled and very flexible, to your pectoral muscle, where you have some solid body mass to back it up. The rifle will move around less and you will be more locked into your cheek weld which will make it even easier to call your shots. 223 moves so little anyways, the additional recoil management will pretty much lock your sights on the target like a tractor beam. You should be able to throw aggressive pairs out to 40yds no problem. 308 has so much more force and reciprocating mass to deal with that even at my very best, the sights still dance around a bit. I'll throw aggressive pairs out to 25yds, but after that I have to start slowing it down to ensure the second hit. Even if the sights are on target, the additional sight movement on the 308 makes it more difficult to see the sights on target. One of the cool parts of this technique is that most shotguns will cycle better and with lighter loads, if you give the gun something solid to push against. Not only will the muzzle climb less, but my experience is that I can generally run a quarter dram less on the shells. The down side is that you may need to refit your shotgun stock. I currently run a 13.25" LOP on my SuperNova.

Thank you for the breakdown. I just watched the video you posted on the first page of this thread and re-read this post. I noticed you pulled the stock into your chest and rolled your shoulder forward and lowered your head with the rifle at the low-ready position prior to the beep, I know that I have do not do that during a match, I always ask the SO for a sight picture prior to the buzzer and set my head in a position that would give me a good sight picture for the first target when I bring the rifle up, but I always am slow on the trigger after acquiring a sight picture.

[Chuck Anderson]

One diagnostic trick I found helpful is putting a laser on the rifle. Being able to watch where the laser goes when the rifle fires is a great way to figure out technique or equipment issues. I found my lightweight AR tracked up and to the right. Clocked the comp over a bit and now it's dead on. Take up your normal firing postion and just focus on the dot. You'll be able to see where it goes. Alternatively you can set up a camera down range to watch. I set up a go pro a few feet off the target and fired Bill Drills. You can slow it down and see where each shot is going. I tried three comps that day. One allowed the muzzle to still rise, one actually drove the muzzle down too much and one was just right. It wouldn't surprise me if my technique has changed a bit over the year and that has changed. Good thing it's winter and I have some time to test stuff out before next season.

[OscarMike]

Since rifle's the only gun I'm actually good at... I'll pop in here as well.

Let's pretend you're a right handed shooter. If your right elbow is down to your side and tucked in (like those goofy tactical videos), your "pocket" is smaller. The accentuated chicken wing from trap shooting isn't necessary, but an elbow at a 45 degree angle creates a bigger pocket for the rifle butt stock to sit in.

As well, the "bladed stance" of yesteryear means your chest, shoulder and pocket are facing to the right. When the rifle recoils, it'll kick right. Square up.

I shoot with an aggressive forward stance. Both arms bent at a 45deg angle pulling the rifle into the pocket. Chest squared up to the target.