Gooldylocks Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 (edited) I am trying to figure out how to speed up this classifier. I shot 55 points in 7.58, HF 7.2559. Classifiercalc says it should be good for 76% or so. The things I see are a slow first shot, and not the best entry into the second box. But my question is, how do you cut more than a second off to get into the 6's? To get above an A score I would need to be shooting this in 6.5ish, with the same points.Thoughts? A video helps haha.... Edited November 12, 2014 by Gooldylocks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Where are you slow? what are your split times for all 12 shots? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gooldylocks Posted November 12, 2014 Author Share Posted November 12, 2014 Splits, using the free shot timer app on my phone are between .29 and .43. Took 2.54 shot to shot on the run. But I don't swear to these numbers, this app sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gooldylocks Posted November 12, 2014 Author Share Posted November 12, 2014 The other stage that I need help on is this one: What I need to do is get out of the far leaning position and get moving faster in the other direction. How do you guys do that, and do it so fast? When I am leaning way out and around a barricade of some variety I always have to take a stutter step or sllloooowly move back the other way. That, along with point shooting the paper on the right side of the wall and having to take a couple makeups, are probably my biggest issues here. Start position was facing wall, toes touching. Tips? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 (edited) As a tall-ish (6'2") person, i have trouble getting moving quickly from a lean. I've tried some things in dryfire that help. One is getting lower. If you don't have to shoot from the other side of the barricade (i.e. if you just have to leave it quickly), it is probably faster to move your left foot outside the fault line and push off. also, it's faster to not miss on steel, lol. Looking at your vid from times two, it seems to me you are moving pretty quickly, but your splits and transitions seem slow and deliberate on the first array. Seems like you were much faster on the 2nd one. You really got going quickly too, something I struggle with. I'm only a relatively new A shooter, so take that fwiw, but if I were you, I'd focus on shooting faster the first array, shooting a little sooner on the 2nd array, and dropping fewer points. If you do everything the same speed but shoot all alphas, you'll be less than 2% from a M score. (btw, shooting it in 6.5 with those points would be a hf of 8.46 or 89%, well above a minimum M score). Even .29 seems a bit slow for a wide open target at 10-12 yards. Edited November 12, 2014 by motosapiens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gooldylocks Posted November 12, 2014 Author Share Posted November 12, 2014 Thanks for the help! I'm a B currently, but I've got a couple of A classifiers in the book and I'm hoping to make it soon. watching it again I agree about the first vs second arrays. The first one looked slower by a fair bit. What would be a good split speed at that kind of range? I will go to the range and see what I'm capable of. Thanks again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikerburgess Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 on the classifier to get a 100% it looks like you would need to shoot it clean in about 6.3 seconds or get 55 points in 5.78 seconds, there is no one thing that is going to get you that time it is going to be a combination of lots of little bits. faster draw, splits ans transitions, with a little more accuracy. another place to make up some time would be to start your movement out of the first box as you are shooting the last target and have the gun up and on target as you get into the second box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gooldylocks Posted November 12, 2014 Author Share Posted November 12, 2014 I completely agree Mike. I know I need to speed up my draw and transitions, and am trying to work that in my training a lot. Do you know any good drills to work getting into and out of positions? I've been trying to do that in live fire practice some, shooting around corners and backing out on the last target, then moving to the next position and shooting as I enter the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikerburgess Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 (edited) I wish I practiced enough to be helpful with that Edit to fix auto correct word Edited November 13, 2014 by bikerburgess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 In the first video you're much faster in the second box than the first, how were your hits in second array compared to the first? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robb315 Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 (edited) Faster splits, start exiting first box as you are finishing shooting, and be ready to start shooting the moment you enter second box. As far as the second video, watch some footage of Lesgar Murdock. He really plants and takes off very aggresively from hard leans. Edited November 13, 2014 by robb315 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gooldylocks Posted November 14, 2014 Author Share Posted November 14, 2014 Thanks for the tips rob. I will look him up and start working on that. Does anyone know a good par time for splits at that range, that I should start working towards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 There really is no reason to drop points on this classifier - wide open targets at 12 yds and in. There is also no reason you shouldn't be able to execute splits in the .2 sec range for these types of targets. However, The biggest time wasters i see are not leaving while you are shooting out of the first position and not shooting in the 2nd position as soon as your first foot enters the 2nd box. This is a litte hard to describe but you should set up your steps on this classifier so that you plant your right foot right next to the left outside edge of the right box so that you use a crossover step with you left foot to enter the box. The reason for this is as soon as you plant your left foot in the box and lift your right foot off the ground you can be shooting the 2nd array .. Long before you plant your right foot. I learned how to shoot while leaving a position and shoot while entering a position from Steve Anderson and 1 month later at the Area 6 Championship Times Two was one of the stages .... I shot it a full 1.5 sec faster than I had ever done before because of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeerBaron Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 at that range I would say around .25 or even less would be a split to aim for. a top A or M shooter probably closer towards .20 than .25. transitions under .40 between targets that are close together and all in line. what was the first shot time? hard to tell but if you need to save a second on a classifier that's only around 7 seconds long the draw and first shot can be a place to save a few tenths. sharpening up the hits would help too. even a couple extra points. I agree you definitely shot the second array more positively than the first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gooldylocks Posted November 14, 2014 Author Share Posted November 14, 2014 Thanks for the tips. I definitely need to work on falling out of the box on the last shot, I used to work that a lot in live fire but have slacked off. Thanks for reminding me! I had never thought of setting up my steps like that for entering the box, but it makes a lot of sense to do it that way. I'm going to try that next time I'm at the range. I don't know what my first shot time was, but it looks pretty awful from the video. .2-.25 is fast haha that's gonna take some work. I don't have very good splits, I think the fastest split I have ever shot was like a .15 on a 5 yard bill drill haha. Seems like the general consensus is draw speed, faster splits, falling out of the box, and shooting as I re enter the box. Oh wait, that's everything! Now I just need to break it up and work those skills individually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkeeler Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 (edited) I am trying to figure out how to speed up this classifier. I shot 55 points in 7.58, HF 7.2559. Classifiercalc says it should be good for 76% or so. The things I see are a slow first shot, and not the best entry into the second box. But my question is, how do you cut more than a second off to get into the 6's? To get above an A score I would need to be shooting this in 6.5ish, with the same points. Thoughts? A video helps haha.... Faster transitions, and entry into the box. You could save a second entering into the box. You run a lot faster than I do/can. But you waste a second or so getting to the shooting. Start slowing down about 4-5 steps before you get to the box and be looking at the target with gun up and on target as soon as the foot that is still out side the box lifts off the ground you should be shooting. This feels goofy and feels slower but the timer proves differently. You also seemed to be very deliberate with your shots on the first array vs the second array. I am not a huge fan of falling out of the box, finish the shot and get moving. I ran this classifier in April 6.81 seconds 55 points. 8.0764HF. and I botched up the draw. Edited November 14, 2014 by bkeeler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 .2-.25 is fast haha that's gonna take some work. I don't have very good splits, I think the fastest split I have ever shot was like a .15 on a 5 yard bill drill haha. .15 is smoking fast imho. I can't physically move my finger that fast yet. .25 is pretty reasonable however, but it will take practice. At 10-12 yards, finger speed is irrelevant. It's all about consistency of grip and seeing the sights. I need to work on splits at that distance myself, both for open targets and for partials. I'm going to do some bill drills and 3-shots per target drill to do just that next live-fire session. If you were shooting .4 splits, you can make up nearly a second by just shooting .25 splits. I think you already move very well for an A/B level shooter. Of course you can always get better, but the low-hanging fruit is just shooting too dang slow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 (edited) Remember, shooting classifiers well is about a fast draw, fast transitions, fast reload and being very accurate. Super fast splits are useful but not critical to putting up A/M class numbers. For most classifiers you can shoot .25 sec splits and put up A/M scores all day long if you do the other stuff I mentioned really well. Ben Stoeger said in one of his books that once you can lay down .18-.20 sec splits there is really nothing more to be gained there. Times Two is one of the few classifiers which requires movement so to do well on it you'll need to perfect shooting into and out of positions and learn to shoot targets at the very first instant you can when moving into a new position? You're moving plenty fast enough between positions, you now need to learn to shoot more efficently Edited November 14, 2014 by Nimitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikerburgess Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 You said falling out of the box on the last shot, it should probably be for the whole last target at least, that half second out takes to start moving can be done while still shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LexTalionis Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 Hey, Ryan. I'd echo what everyone else said. I have the benefit of having shot that same match. One thing I did on the star stage was get indexed on the first target way before I hit the box. It shaves off at least .25s. I'm not a great shooter by any means, but maybe some things from my match can help. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gooldylocks Posted November 15, 2014 Author Share Posted November 15, 2014 Must be a pretty decent shooter to have won the whole match haha! Thanks for posting your video mark. It helps to be able to see where I can pick up some time and speed everything up. I definitely see what you are saying about aiming early on the star, you can see how much faster on the first target you are than I was on that stage pretty easily. What was your reasoning for shooting far to near on the classifier? So you can speed up through the string and leave on the "easiest" target? It seems to me that shooting outside to inside would be better, since then your momentum is swinging you the right direction.. And the last split in the video, on Dinner Time? That was crazy, it sounded like a single shot. Congrats on the win, and thanks for the help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 (edited) Get your hands on the gun 3-4 steps before you get to the box. Get your gun up in position and aiming at the first target 2-3 steps before entering the second box. I just shot this last month and wasn't thrilled with the run but it was an 89% in 6.65 seconds and after giving you that advice I didn't really do it myself very well. Reload was late so I was late getting the hands back on the gun. (go to 1:25 mark) Edited November 15, 2014 by waktasz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LexTalionis Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 Hey, Ryan. My thinking on the classifier was that shooting right to left allows me to shift my body weight to the right the further I get through the string. In theory I would be able to lean out of the box as I'm engaging the last (easiest) target. In practice I don't think it mattered too much I watched your star video again, and have another thought. Compare your starting feet position (after stepping off the barricade) to mine. I stepped to that position (even bobbled my left foot a little) thinking more about the exit than about stability for shooting the star. Since my right foot was back and my left foot was forward and balanced on the fault line, I was able to thrust out of there pretty quickly. Hope to see you in Albany again sometime soon. I won't be there next month, but maybe in January. Also, I'm the MD in Bend. Come out and shoot with us sometime! We're hosting the OR State Championship next May. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gooldylocks Posted November 15, 2014 Author Share Posted November 15, 2014 Are there still slots available? I keep meaning to shoot a bend match sometime, what day are they on? Hopefully I can make it over the hill for one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LexTalionis Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 Registration will open next week, so there are plenty of slots available. The main match will be on May 24th, 2015. That's Memorial Day weekend. I'm still working out some initial details, but here's the link: https://clubs.practiscore.com/2015-or-state-uspsa-championship/register Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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