micro Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 (edited) When reloading on my XL650 using Dillon carbide dies, some casings get out of spec. What I mean by "out of spec" is I check each casing before reloading for obvious issues. I also put them in my Dillon case gauge to ensure they are sized correctly (no bulges, clean entry/exit from case gauge). Somewhere along the reloading line, some of my cases are getting resized out of spec. I check the finished rounds, and there are several that will not pass the case gauge test. They tend to get hung at the bottom off the cartridge (primer end) and stick out slightly. This is once fired brass, tumbled, and lubricated using Dillon Case Lube. I have triple checked my decamping/resizing die, and it is set up correctly (tested, verified, and lock bolt tight). I am at a loss on this one, and hoping some of the reloading veterans can assist. Thank you in advance for your help. Edited November 9, 2014 by micro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjohn Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 Need more information.......... caliber, grain, bullet type, brass manufacture, brand of case gauge........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 First thing I would check is for nicks on the rim. Turn the round over and see if the rim will go into the gauge. If it does then that is not the problem. Second, since you are using Dillon lube which is sticky, try cleaning the rounds before gauging. Maybe tumble for 15 minutes or just rub in a towel with some mineral spirits. If so much as a single flake of powder sticks to a case it will not fit in a gauge sometimes. Make absolutely sure the sizing die is turned all the way down to just kissing the shell plate. Make sure the round is actually failing the gauge because of the base of the round. Not enough crimp to remove the bell all the way will feel about the same when it fails to gauge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njl Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 If you try inserting them into the gauge backwards (primer end into the gauge), will they start going in? I see a lot of .45acp brass in which the extractor has created burs in the case head, and these burs are big enough to stop the round from gauging. They can be filed off...but I don't think it's necessary. It sounds like you're only checking after the full process (resizing, flaring, seating, crimping) and don't really know that it's a resizing issue. More likely, if it's not burs, you're creating bulges in the side of the cartridge by either seating bullets too deep, using oversized bullets, or not seating the bullets squarely enough in the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 I assumed 9mm because his other blank thread mentioned 9mm in the title? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micro Posted November 9, 2014 Author Share Posted November 9, 2014 Details: reloading 9mm using Dillon 9mm Carbide dies. Loading .355 124 gr Hornady XTP, mixed brass, Dillon Case gauge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiggerJJ Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 Clean out the inside of your gauge, thoroughly. Use gunscrubber and a brush. Then never ever put a round or case into it without cleaning off the lube before dropping it in the gauge. Trust me when I say a lot of inconsistencies will then dissapear... jj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 Use your other case gauge. ..the barrel of the gun they will be fired from. If they pass the keplunk test, no worries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjacobs Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 Use your other case gauge. ..the barrel of the gun they will be fired from. If they pass the keplunk test, no worries. exactly. Pistol case gauges are tight, barrels are generally not. Ive had rounds not pass guages that went into the chamber just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12glocks Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 I have probably 2 or 3 out of 200 that do not case gauge when loading 9mm on my 650 which is a new press for me. They will drop in a Glock barrel. I had a couple of malfunctions so I started case gauging 100% of the rounds. I suspect the problem could be that the Dillon dies are more beveled at the bottom of the die and do not quite size down as far as, say, a Lee sizing die. If you did not give another 1/8th of a turn after bottoming the sizing die, the tool head floats a little and you may be loosing a little on the bottom of the case as well. What I do is run the out of spec rounds through a Lee FCD on a single stage press and they will drop in the gauge after that. I have no crimp set just take advantage of the post sizer feature. I may try and swap a Lee sizer die and see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njl Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 It's easy to see if resizing is the issue. After resizing a case, remove it from the press before doing any of the other operations on it, and drop it into the gauge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Clean out the inside of your gauge, thoroughly. Use gunscrubber and a brush. Then never ever put a round or case into it without cleaning off the lube before dropping it in the gauge. Trust me when I say a lot of inconsistencies will then dissapear... jj Amen Brother Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micro Posted November 10, 2014 Author Share Posted November 10, 2014 I performed the following based on several pieces of advice in this thread: 1) cleaned my case gauge thoroughly. This helped a bit and a few of the ones that failed the gauge suddenly passed. 2) I tested a few of the remaining rounds in the barrel of my Glock 19 G4. Of the 10 I tested, 7 fell in and out perfectly, the other 3 got stuck. 3) I pulled the bullets from 10 rounds of the reloads I did earlier today. I tested the brass in the case gauge. Amazingly,7/10 fit in with no issues (wtf?) I figured it may be a slight issue with the crimping, so I adjusted my crimping die about 1/8 of a turn. I ran the few rounds back through the crimping station and tested again. It made no difference what so ever, and they did not fit in either the car gauge nor the barrel. I was reading on another thread that some reloaders have used a Lee U-die or something similar to help cut this issue down. I will be investigating this in the very near future. If anyone has any suggestions in that regard, I'm all ears. Thanks to everyone for the suggestions. Better safe than sorry when it comes to reloading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njl Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 I'm really doubting it's a sizing issue unless your sizing die is not set properly. What bullets are you using? Measure some, particularly a bullet from one of your disassembled gauge failing ones. What diameter are they near the base? What OAL are you seating them to? What brass are you using (mixed, or a single headstamp)? When you look at the cartridges that fail to gauge or barrel test, if you look around the circumference of the cartridge, can you see or feel a bulge in the side of the case around where the bottom of the bullet should be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micro Posted November 10, 2014 Author Share Posted November 10, 2014 I'm using Hornady XTP 124gr JHP. My recipe is 5.1gr Unique, CCI 500 SPP, mixed brass, OAL 1.135I am attaching some pictures (blurry from my cell phone). Yes, there is a slight bulge where the bottom of the bullet is. This is the first projectile I've ever experienced this with). The pictures will show the bulge, the lighting makes it look really bad, but it's not. I also show the cartridge in the case gauge both upside down, and right side up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micro Posted November 10, 2014 Author Share Posted November 10, 2014 Forgot to mention, the cartridge in the pictures has Winchester brass. In regards to my resizing die, it's set all the way down to the shell plate, PLUS an extra 1/8 turn. I can see if this happened consistently on all cartridges, but it doesn't. I reloaded 300 rounds yesterday with no issue. I did 300 more today and of that 300, about 50 went bad. And no, it was not the last 50. I generally test every 25-30 rounds in the case gauge while reloading to make sure I'm still to spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlmiller1 Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Bullet sure looks like its sticking out of the brass a long ways.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njl Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Bullet sure looks like its sticking out of the brass a long ways.... Fuzzy pictures, but yeah it does. If the bulge is only on one side of the cartridge, you're seating them crooked. Assuming you're using a Dillon seating die, which way do you have the seating stem? Those truncated cone JHP probably won't mate up well with the round nose end of the seating stem. You may also just have to go slower and make more of an effort to be sure the bullets start out reasonably straight in station 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiggerJJ Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 The rest of your problems are probably unsupported chamber bulge not getting hit with the sizing die. Roll size or a Lee die will help. The Dillon die has a large funnel that doesn't size all the way to the web. Some use a lee fcd to battle this problem, I roll size and use a Lee U die...99.99% pass the gauge. jmho jj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micro Posted November 10, 2014 Author Share Posted November 10, 2014 The OAL is 1.135, and with 5.1gr of powder in the case, it's almost a compressed load at that length. The ammo cycles fine. The bulge is all the way around the case, not just on one side. The seating stem is set for flat tops. The bullets are going in straight. I'm going to order a U-die today, and keep an eye on things. If that does not solve the problem (99% of the way), I'll be back for more advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 If you're starting with mixed brass (ie:picked up off the range... even if it's the same type: but shot out of different guns), then they have expanded different amounts in the original firing because of different size chambers in different guns). The resizing you are doing pushes brass downwards causing a bulge in some brass and not in others. However if you're strictly using your own brass out of your own gun, then... never mind... this theory doesn't hold. -ivan- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarnburg Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 I was having the same issue with production and 9 major loads. I was getting 4-5% case gauge fail. I do not sort my brass by headstamp so I wanted a setup that would make everything run. After a fair amount of trial and error I ended up with this die setup. Station 1 - Dillon carbine de-cap Resize die Station 2 - EGW carbide U-Die with decap stem removed Station 3 - Powder drop Station 4 - Redding Competition Seating Station 5 - Dillon taper crimp die. This setup has the advantage that the case with powder only moves one spot before getting a bullet seated. You do lose the powder check die, but I just look into each case as I set the bullet in place. You will want to use case lube all the time.I prefer Hornady One Shot. This setup has dropped my case gauge fail to .05% or less. Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leewongfei Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 When reloading on my XL650 using Dillon carbide dies, some casings get out of spec. What I mean by "out of spec" is I check each casing before reloading for obvious issues. I also put them in my Dillon case gauge to ensure they are sized correctly (no bulges, clean entry/exit from case gauge). Somewhere along the reloading line, some of my cases are getting resized out of spec. I check the finished rounds, and there are several that will not pass the case gauge test. They tend to get hung at the bottom off the cartridge (primer end) and stick out slightly. This is once fired brass, tumbled, and lubricated using Dillon Case Lube. I have triple checked my decamping/resizing die, and it is set up correctly (tested, verified, and lock bolt tight). I am at a loss on this one, and hoping some of the reloading veterans can assist. Thank you in advance for your help. You probably need to tighten your taper crimp a pinch more. If its getting hung that low, thats what it generally is. Keep in mind that each case manufacturer is slightly different from one another. Your setting may be fine for 99% of the cases out there, but that 1% may be shorter and therefor not getting all of the bell removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob DuBois Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Purchase either a Lee Standard Die set or the U die from Midway USA or EGW. Lee's first stage sizing die will size closer to the extractor groove and a little tighter than other brands. Dillon dies have a wider mouth so the machine will run faster but do not size close to the extractor groove. Lee's dies have a smaller mouth allowing the brass to size closer to the extractor groove may run a little slower but quality will go up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDA Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Do you own a set of calipers? If so, start measuring the failed rounds to determine where the issue is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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