waktasz Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 I swear I posted this questions earlier but I can't find the thread now... Anyway, can you add epoxy or clay to a grip panel in Production to make the grips wider?...specifically on a gun with removable grips like a CZ or Tanfoglio? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 I seem to remember a thread about this as well and know some claimed it was legal to add SiCa via epoxy but don'tremember any definitive proof offered ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted October 13, 2014 Author Share Posted October 13, 2014 The rules allow for glue and grit, so that is legal. I want to add some material to some grips I found that are too thin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Perhaps you were looking for this thread... http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=188350&hl=grip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Having just reread this thread I'm as confused as i was when this first came out ... My basic issue is with the wording of the rule talking about that the grips have to maintain the same profile and shape since the rule does not specific which grips are to be used as the standard to judge from? Is the profile and shape of CZ thick grips the one? Or the thin grips? Or perhaps VZs? What about CopperGuns CZ grips? Etc, etc ... Also, exactly how do you judge "shape and profile"? As someone posted .... If it looks like ghetto gunsmitting then illegal, if it looks like a commercial CNC machine did it ... Legal. Here's my real problem ... I've decided to get into the CZ grip business ... I've manufactured my own style of grips that fit CZs on the Production list, they don't extend below the gun to make a makeshift magwell nor do they add a beavertail. However, they don't look like current grips other companies make for the CZ WRT shape and profile .... So, am I out of business before I get started? And what if Billy Bob gets out his dremel and copies my design in his garage. Is he SOL when he shows up at the Production Nationals? Either update the rules tobe more specific or have DNROI issue a ruling .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted October 13, 2014 Author Share Posted October 13, 2014 Crap. My current grips are ghetto gunsmithing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Just go buy CNC machine and crank out a copy on it and you should be good to go .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted October 13, 2014 Author Share Posted October 13, 2014 Mine is just covered in epoxy, siicon carbide and spraypaint, should be legal actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 This whole thing about the grips is clear as mud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 yup, this is the kind of stuff the Board should be addressing at it's meetings. It's not even remotely usable the way it's written ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onepocket Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 So if I'm hearing this right I can add as much glue and grit as I want I just can't cut away any grip surface. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frag316 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 I'm not sure what DNROI would say now, but when I asked John Amidon about something similar, he was adamant that any change to the factory grip's profile violated the appendix. That means, from what I took from my conversation with him, you can neither add to nor take away from. You can fill voids to make the surface flat, but you cannot make it higher than the highest point of the factory configuration. Does that make sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Exactly which "factory grip" profile are we talking about not to deviate from? The grips that come from CZ overseas are the black rubber ones and are the only factory grips .... But wait, CZC "makes" a CZ that is on the Production legal gun list so I guess any grips they make are "factory" as well ... But they don't actual manufacture any CZs, they modify the ones from the Chech republic so are their grips 'manufacturer's grips"? Confused yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAFO Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Not just CZ. Look at Sig. There are models on the Production approved list that have all of the following from the factory: Factory plastic grip panels Factory plastic enhanced ergonomic (E2) one-piece grips Wood grip panels Hogue G-10 panels Hogue Aluminum grip panels All of those differ from each other in either thickness or side profile. And since they are all OEM on Production-legal models, I could put any of them on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 there doesn't seem to be any issue with using any of the many grips provided by companies ... the issue is when you make a rule that says you can't deviate from the shape and profile you need to define which ONE you are talking about ... if all those grips with different profiles and shapes are legal then I should be able to modify grips as well ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 there doesn't seem to be any issue with using any of the many grips provided by companies ... the issue is when you make a rule that says you can't deviate from the shape and profile you need to define which ONE you are talking about ... if all those grips with different profiles and shapes are legal then I should be able to modify grips as well ... In practice, I don't think anyone really cares that much, but it would suck to run into the tribal RO that interpreted the rule differently. My take on it is that the grips have to look normal. It seems clear that sanding them down thinner isn't a problem and neither is putting some extra grip tape on them to fatten them up. I've certainly never had anyone look twice at the grips on my cz (stock plastic grips filled with epoxy and sanded down to about the thickness of thick aluminum or regular vz grips, then covered in grip tape). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 I agree but it's that one guy at Chrono who decides he doesn't like your grip and they call over the RM and the next thing you know you're shoting for no score or moved to open that worres me ... Guess i'll just carry a set of factory grips in my range bag .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 I agree but it's that one guy at Chrono who decides he doesn't like your grip and they call over the RM and the next thing you know you're shoting for no score or moved to open that worres me ... Guess i'll just carry a set of factory grips in my range bag .... And start asking chrono guys and RM's what they think. Or email Troy. or sumtin'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 And do the grips have to be symmetrical? Can I put a thin grip panel on the strong hand side, and a thick grip panel on the weak hand side? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Exactly which "factory grip" profile are we talking about not to deviate from? The grips that come from CZ overseas are the black rubber ones and are the only factory grips .... But wait, CZC "makes" a CZ that is on the Production legal gun list so I guess any grips they make are "factory" as well ... But they don't actual manufacture any CZs, they modify the ones from the Chech republic so are their grips 'manufacturer's grips"? Confused yet? This would all be much simpler for you guys if you'd just get rid of those nickel-plated sissy pistols and start shooting Glocks...... For some reason this topic doesn't come up as much for those..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted October 15, 2014 Author Share Posted October 15, 2014 I had Glocks for a long time. Then I graduated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdawgs56 Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 I shot glocks until I was man enough to be able to carry a REAL gun not made of plastic. ;) -Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted October 15, 2014 Author Share Posted October 15, 2014 Don't talk about carrying guns in front of Nik. He's from New Jersey and it makes him sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Don't talk about carrying guns in front of Nik. He's from New Jersey and it makes him sad. Funny! I may be from NJ, but I've managed to stay escaped for the better part of a decade now...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikerburgess Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 This is why I hate the equipment rules for Production. I like the division but the rules are impossible to enforce. So as the guy inspecting a production gun I would be required to know every possible configuration of every pistol with GLOCKS that is pretty simple except for the aftermarket parts that look just like GLOCK parts (by rule a lone wolf extended mag release that is just like the GLOCK version is illegal) . With Sigs and CZs ect. you have the added issues of grips and hammers and safety lever combinations to also ensure are correct so what happens is basically it all gets ignored and if it fits in the box and isn't a blatant violation like adding a thumb rest or a mag well than it gets passed, because if the rules are too hard to enforce then they get ignored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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